made from Australian woods was, in 1910, 1s. 11d.; in 1911, 2s. 11d.; in 1912, 5s. 6d.; and in 1916, 7s. 5d. The original cost of the imported steel trucks was about £170, and the trucks manufactured by us cost from £106 to £120. Our trucks weigh 5 cwt. less than the imported trucks, both are capable of carrying 10 tons. The next thing to consider is whether the bulk handling of wheat should be the policy to be adopted in Western Australia, and whether it would not be advisable to go on using bags. The Eastern States may be better suited for bulk handling. Bags may become cheaper and there may be other advantages. There is also to be considered the difficulty of getting a bulk handling plant during the war, or even for some time after. We must also remember the convenience connected with the handling of bags in small communities, and the possibility of getting a better price in consequence of the wheat being supplied in bags. Then again we must remember, in connection with bulk handling, whether the farmers will have appliances for filing vans at sidings. Then again, how are the trucks to be unloaded? Will they be unloaded by a shovel, or by tipping, or by pneumatic means? These are the points which appeal to me.

8081. The unloading would be done at the terminal elevator where there would be the machinery?— Yes. I suppose there would be mechanical shovels, or the vans would be emptied by suction. It all means plant.

8082. Considering that we have so many small centres scattered over such a large area, do you think the rolling stock we have would be adequate?— With bulk handling you would not get so much in a truck as you do under the present method. For instance, you would reduce the carrying capacity of a four-wheeled truck from 10 tons to 7 tons cwt.

8083. By Mr. HARRISON: That would mean the capacity of the rolling stock you have now would be reduced by 30 per cent?— Quite.

8084. By the CHAIRMAN: The open trucks could be used as well?— In New South Wales the open trucks are boarded up so that when the brake is applied quickly the wheat does not spill over the end. They have exactly the same tarpaulin ridge pole as ours.

8085. If the wheat was brought in in bulk it would be necessary to raise the platform so as to get to the top of the truck?— Yes.

8086. By Mr. BROWN: What is the height from the rails to the top of the truck?— Our trucks would be about 11ft. from the rails. You would require a little more than that to enable the wheat the gravitate. The broad gauge is 12ft. 9ins. Therefore, anything built would need to be about 13ft. 6ins. above the rail level to give clearance.

8087. Unless the farmer had a conveyor he would have to carry the wheat 10 or 11 feet?—That is so.

8088. By Mr. HARRISON: He would have to raise it from the floor of his vehicle to a height of 13ft. from the ground?—Yes.

8089. By the CHAIRMAN: I notice that in 1913 inquiries were made by the Bulk Handling Committee and they reported that, to handle a five million bushel crop, it was estimated by the Commissioner of Railways that the expenditure which would be involved, so far as his department was concerned, would be £100,000. Do you think that expenditure would be exceeded if we had to deal with a much larger crop, say a 12 million bushel crop?— It would not cost more than that to alter rolling stock referred by Mr. Shillington.

8090. Would there be any additional expenditure involved in the sidings?— Yes. So far as my branch of the Railway Department is concerned, that amount would cover the cost.

8091. It would be necessary to make provision for the use of the altered vans at the sidings. The Engineer for Existing Lines would have to be engaged to carry out alterations?— There would need to be elevators.

8092. It would be impossible to have an elevator at every country siding in a place like Western Australia where the wheat districts are so scattered?— That is just my contention. Western Australia is not a place where we can carry out bulk handling.

8093. And if it should be carried out, it would be necessary for farmers to send their wheat to a terminal elevator?—Yes, or it would be necessary to provide elevator platforms from which you could dump the wheat in to the covered trucks.

8094. That would involve additional cost for works which the Existing Lines Department would carry out?— Certainly.

8095. Then the £100,000 referred to by the Bulk Handling Committee would cover the cost of altering the rolling stock, and there would, in addition, be increased expenditure at all the sidings to make provision for the loading of the trucks?— That is so.

8096. Your opinion is that Western Australia, owing to the scattered nature of its agricultural districts, and the small quantity of wheat received at some of the sidings, would be acting wisely if it were to postpone the consideration of the bulk handling idea?— Yes. At the end of the war it will be possible to trade with many countries which have nothing to do with bulk handling. Take Egypt, Palestine and Mesopotamia. We could not send our wheat to those places in bulk because there would be no more elevators there for unloading our ships. There are many countries which are handling wheat in bulk, and if the Eastern States want to do so as well, let them. In Western Australia the conditions are totally different from those of the Eastern States.

8097. By Mr. HARRISON: In other words, what you say is, let Western Australia supply the smaller customers with wheat in bags.

8098. By Mr. BROWN: Would the covered-in trucks which we have be sufficient to cope with the 12 million bushel harvest, if they were all in use during the three months of the year when they would be required?— No. They would only be equal to 600 four-wheeled trucks. They would be about a third of what would be required.

8099. Are the covered-in trucks much more expensive to build than the uncovered trucks?— Owing to the altered price of material and labour, the cost would be about £400 each. The open four-wheeled truck in use would cost to build £150, and as a rule a bogie costs double that amount. But instead of the £300, which would be the cost of a bogie high-sided truck, it would be nearer £400 for a covered bogie truck. That is the initial cost.

8100. Would the maintenance cost be greater?— Yes, it is always greater with that type of vehicle.

8101. The value from a railway point of view would not be increased?— With the "V" truck— the covered bogie— we would get a load of 15 tons 10cwt. into it compared with the load of 20 tons if we used two four-wheelers.

8102. What saving would there be in haulage?— There would be a slight gain; there would be reduced rail friction. You have the two bogies to take the place of the wheels under the four-wheeled vehicle. If, instead of making a truck of that size, we made a truck to carry 100 tons, we might gain something, but such trucks would exhaust most of the sidings.

8103. By the CHAIRMAN: The larger carrying capacity would be useless on account of the small quantity of wheat at some of the sidings?— That is what we experience now, and that is why we use so many four-wheeled trucks.

8104. Would not the railage have to be increased, on account of the difficulty in connection with the carrying capacity of the truck?— You would have to make more trips, and there would be more dead loss.

8105. By Mr. BROWN: You would have to put a third more freightage in value to make the same money for the department?— That is the position. I have never been able to bring myself to believe that bulk handling should be adopted in Western Australia.

8016. By Mr. HARRISON: There would be the saving of wheat which would be carried under cover?— I do not know that there would be much, and there are many things which ought to be considered.

8107. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: In the approximate estimate of £100,000 for the alteration of the rolling stock, have you taken into consideration the probable necessity for an increased quantity of rolling stock?— No, I am only allowing for the alteration of the present rolling stock engaged in wheat traffic and covered vans to meet what would be the demand.

8108. Seeing that the carrying capacity of the rolling stock would be reduced 30 per cent. to handle the harvest in the same time as at present, would there not be a necessity for more rolling stock?— Yes, covered vans would be brought into service, trucks which are at present not engaged in that class of work. They do not like loading bags into those vans. We would bring 300 covered vans into service to make up for the quantity the open trucks would not carry.

8109. By the CHAIRMAN: Have you done anything yet to keep the trucks clear of weevil?— I do not know how you are going to do that. The weevil cannot be killed by steam, and even if steam were effective, I do not know where we could get the trucks steamed. It is not possible to have appliances at every siding. The weevil appear to thrive on the steaming process. It did not have any more effect on weevil than it did on tick. We tried it on tick some time ago and found it very difficult to exterminate that pest.