8405.You referred just now to the handling of wheat. In 1913 -14 the total amount paid for all wheat that passed through Fremantle, paid in handling charges ,was £10,000 .According to the Royal Commission which sat in Victoria to deal with bulk handling, approximately the same quantity of wheat under the bulk system would involve payment of between £17, 000 and £18,000?— The fact that Victoria to-day has not gone in for bulk storage is due to her permanent officers. When tenders were first called then, the price submitted was Is 7d. Subsequently tenders were called again and the price quoted was Is. 4d. That is why the work has not been gone on with. In New South Wales under the plan and specification which were first submitted the price tendered was 10¾d., and the condition in the two State might be said to have been comparable.

8406 You admit the difference between bulk handling and bulk storage. In connection with the latter you must expend more than in connection with bulk handling?— Bulk storage. would not be 15 per cent, of the whole installation. The more expensive part of the work is in connection with erection of the working houses and the plant in the terminal stations.

8407. Where do you get your 15 per cent from?— From Mr .Carter, of Metcalf & Co., and from the price for the different section of the work given to me by the Minister for Agricultural in New South Wales.

8408. Would you be surprised to hear that we had a report from Mr .Carter which stated that if wood silos were constructed instead of concrete, the insurance on silos and contents would be £25,000 while concrete would be £8,200?— I do not know whether Mr. Carter is an authority on insurance .

8409. Insurance people say the insurance rate would be the same?— I suppose Mr. Carter was giving you comparisons base on experience in America. Mr. Carter would not be relied on, being an interested party. It would be a good thing in the interests of the State if Mr. Carter was here giving evidence.

8410. We have before us the evidence Mr. Carter gave in Adelaide?— But not dealing with the West Australian Scheme.

8411. Mr. Pearse, in giving evidence said, if it had not been for the weevil he would not recommend at this juncture the storage wheat in silos. We also have it in evidence from the Engineer-in-Chief that the cost will be considerably increased just now, and that it will be impossible for bulk handling to pay unless the capital expenditure was considerably reduced?— Mr. Pearse seem to have shifted his ground. In regard to the others, they may be looking at it from the point of what it will save to the farmer. It must be remembered that, to the State as a whole, it means more than it does to the farmer. I have given the list of accumulated benefits to be derived. There is the point in regard to the railway trucks touched upon by Mr. Hume. That has been answered by the evidence given before the Advisory Board, from which I previously quoted.

8412. We have it in evidence from Mr .Lord that the only test made was in regard to shunting?— But in Victoria they ran on the main line with perfectly satisfactory results. Even the local test was sufficiently severe. Did Mr. Hume give any evidence adverse to the result of the test in Victoria?

8413. Mr. Hume said that the necessary alterations to the trucks would involve £100,000?— That is so. Last time I was here I contrasted the storage sheds as temporary structures with the silos as permanent structures. Last year the sheds cost 3s. 2d., whereas the silos in New south Wales cost 10¾d. Wherever you have those terminals as against sheds , you will have less lay out in line and sites .The estimated cost for the sheds is 2½d., and we do not know that they will be within the estimate.

8414. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Which is the easier to estimate in this State, the cost of a silo or the cost of a shed?— One should be as easy as the other.

8415.Although in regard to the sheds we have last year's actual cost to go upon?— Competent officers ought to be able to estimate the cost of the sheds in this State with greater accuracy than they could estimate the cost of concrete elevators in this State. In New South Wales the estimated cost of concrete silos was considerably lower than the actual cost. The chief difference between this State and New South Wales lies in the cost of the cement.

8416. By the CHAIRMAN: What about the sand and material for concrete ?— I see no reason to anticipate that sand would cost more here than there.

8417. By Hon J. F. ALLEN: In list of tenders made out by practical men, have you ever noticed a difference of as much as 10 per cent. between the highest and the lowest?— Yes.

8418. It shows the value of estimate ?— It depends a great deal on the individual engineer. In New South Wales tender were let at prices lower than those estimated.

8419. Is it possible to estimate for works in advance of plans?— Yes, with reasonable accuracy.

8420. Within 10 per cent?— I should say so .

8421. By Mr BROWN: Would you treat the bulk handling system as a Government policy similar to the railway system?— After the unsatisfactory handling experience the Government of Saskatchewan made it available to the co-operative companies for a period of years.

8422. Do you think the farmers should pay for the whole service of bulk handling until the capital is wiped off?— Yes, provided they become the owners of the silos when paid for.

8423. Have any knowledge of the system of taking the grain from the fields in Canada?— No.

8424. In Western Australia most of the grain is taken off by strippers, some with winnowing and other without winnowing appliances?— Yes.

8425. Where is the grain put when taken off?— Generally into bags.

8416. And left in the field over night?— Yes, perhaps for weeks.

8427. If no bags were used, where would the grains be stored, in the field?— A portion of it might be stored in bags with mouths tied, while the remaining portion would be run either into depots or in the farmers own storage capacity. When people realise the advantages they would soon find the best way of adapting themselves to the new position.

8428. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: As in the case of dealing with weevil?— That is another question.

8429. By Mr. BROWN: The farmer stripping would require bags for his day's work. When he wanted to get rid of the stuff in the bags, would he cart it to his homestead from the field, or would he leave it in the field?— If he had a box wagon, he would put it straight from the stripper into the wagon, and be carting in while his stripping continued. If there were no depot for him to deliver to, or if he could not arrange to have his carting going on, he would probably have storage granaries some where near his homestead, and when he knocked off he could run a wagon load home in the bags and empty the bags and with a small elevator raise the grain into his silo, or else run it up a ramp and tip it and take his empty bags back, next day.

8430. Later on when he had that wheat sold and brought into the railway depot he would have load it again into these bulk wagons?— Many men to-day already do that or else have to load it into bags or tie the bags. That would be cheaper than it is at present when in many instances in order perhaps to get an improved market, he will cart his stuff to the shed rather than leave it in the field, possibly at the risk of getting wet by rain. Then he has the strain of loading all these bags himself, and must have someone to help him. whereas if the wheat had been put into a storage bin all that he would have to do would be to press a lever and either run the grain into bags or else open the chute month and run it into his box wagon.

8431. Do you think we could get a market all the year round for Australian wheat, or is there a particular time in the year that is most suitable?— I should imagine that at all times we would receive preferential treatment in regard to price.

8432. Do you know that the whole of the Australian wheat in the past has been shipped by the end of March?— I understand that this is because the people are holding it under conditions that they could not store it efficiently for any longer period.

8533. Then it was not for the purpose of getting the best price at that particular period of the year?— I do not know. Most of the big metal buyers when they buy here, buy on order. This would be comparable with the actions of the wheat buyer. He would either buy against orders or sell in advance after buying.

8434. If Argentine, Australian, and Canadian wheat for instance went to the Home market at the one time, do you think the price for Australian wheat would come down?— I suppose that Australian wheat always holds a favourable position compared with other wheats. Where there is a full supply of wheat the price naturally would not be as good as if our wheat could be held until the best time of the year had arrived at which to dispose of it. That State which is in a position to store its wheat will be able to benefit by the regularity of supplies elsewhere.

8435. The object of the farmer is to get the best market?— It is in the interests of whoever has to dispose of the wheat to get as much as possible for it.