8479. By Mr. BROWN: You said that Mr. Newman met you two or three times between certain dates, and that he did not mention this particular matter?—I saw him at least twice.

8480. You never mentioned it to him either?—No, because I thought the matter was ended. When I came back from the country I inquired from the general manager as to how the test was proceeding, and he said that Mr. Pearse and Mr. Newman had tried it, and that it was no better than the old ones.

8481. Then you are both on the same level so far as interest in the matter was concerned; he had no reason to mention it to you and you had no occasion to mention it to him?—Yes; he had reason to refer to it. He did not know that it had been tried. If he thought there was a delay it was the proper thing for him to do to draw my attention to the fact.

8482. By the CHAIRMAN: I suppose you are aware that we have been told that the greatest prevention against weevil is gristing?—I should imagine that to be so.

8483. I suppose you are aware that we have been told by the Secretary of the Scheme that Mr. Newman was not asked to visit the stacks because they were afraid the Scheme would have to pay for his services?—I saw that published.

8484. Do you know that Mr. Newman was not asked to visit any stack until he gave evidence before the Commission?—I think he was asked to visit stacks before. I asked him whether he was going to Geraldton, for the reason that it seemed to me that he ought to have gone there. I told him the Advisory Board were going to Geraldton on a certain date, and that he ought to go with them. He replied, "I will raise the matter with my chief." He did so, and went. He was asked to go in the first year of the Wheat Scheme to report upon stacks and as to the best means of dealing with the weevil.

8485. Mr. Newman said he was not asked to inspect any stacks, but that he went to Fremantle of his own accord. You are going back to 1911, when steps were taken to keep the Fremantle sheds clean after the Argentine wheat had been removed. Mr. Newman went down at that time and reported that the grain borer was there, but afterwards he reported that the sheds were clean. After that he was never asked to visit Fremantle, and when the secretary of the Scheme was asked the reason he replied that it was because the Scheme would have to pay his expenses?—I do not know what was meant because it will be found that in 1916 Mr. Newman was asked by me to go down to the stack. He went down with Mr. Inspector Paton. He was also asked about the same time to deal with the railway trucks.

8486. They tried the steam jet?—It was before that. On the first occasion he recommended the use of two insecticides. Those were tried without success, as was also steam.

8487. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: You say that steps are to be taken to test a truck with insecticide?—That is so.

8488. When is that test to be made?—It is in the hands of Mr. Newman now. I recommended that Mr. Newman and some official of the Works Department should carry out the test.

8489. Will this Commission be given an opportunity of being present?—I should say so, certainly. I will not have anything to do with it because I am leaving again to-morrow. Mr. Newman sees to these things.

8490. Mr. Newman said that any test of a railway truck would be done under his supervision and that he had heard nothing of any treatment of a truck with insecticide?—I cannot follow these matters through when there is a special officer to deal with them. It is to be dealt with by Mr. Newman.

8491. Mr. Newman was not instructed to do anything more than report. For him the matter ended with his report. It was certainly not Mr. Newman's business to test, and the railway authorities say they know nothing of it?—I am afraid we are getting at cross purposes over this.

8491A. By the CHAIRMAN: There are no cross purposes here.

8492. Be Hon. J. F. ALLEN: I want to know whose business it was to see that a test was made?—Take the first instance: without any special reference to Mr. Newman I should imagine that he would be consulted in regard to the test. He and Mr. Inspector Pearse were making tests with insecticides for the cleaning of dunnage, and the General Manager understood that Mr. Newman had tested this particular ingredient on that occasion. In regard to the forthcoming test, my last recommendation was that it should be carried out by Mr. Newman and some official of the Works Department who would be able to find the necessary appliances. I have not seen anything of it since then. I presume Mr. Newman will be present and will help with the test. He is the proper person.

8493. Whose business is it to see that the test is made?—It now becomes Mr. Newman's business.

8494. Now, yes, but where should the cause of any delay be found if Mr. Newman was only asked to report and if he has reported?—But Mr. Newman was testing the materials in the open at Fremantle from the 22nd December last until the 8th October of this year.

8495. At whose request was this done?—At the request of the Wheat Scheme.

8496. So the lack in the testing of trucks to date would be through some delay on the part of the officials of the Wheat Scheme?—The reason why the test has not been made up to the present is that it was understood that the tests made by Mr. Newman and Mr. Pearse shortly after the 26th September had been made with that material.

8497. There is nothing on the files to show whether anything had been done?—No.

8498. Is that not rather extraordinary seeing the number of trivial things that are recorded on those files?—Another matter I have to refer to is a statement in the interim report of the Royal Commission in the section dealing with Albany, page VIII., where it is stated, "The evidence discloses that Mr. Sutton, a member of the Advisory Committee, was informed by one of the acquiring agents before these sites were selected that Albany was not suitable for storing wheat for any length of time near the foreshore. Apparently no notice was taken of the advice tendered." Judging from the reply given to question 5764 the acquiring agent referred to is Mr. F. C. Piesse, miller, of Katanning. There were 13 other agents operating and at least two shipping agents who had far greater experience than Mr. Piesse with wheat stored and waiting shipment at Albany. It would therefore be quite as logical to arrive at a purely opposite conclusion and state that apparently the weight of evidence of more experienced and less interested agents was such as to overshadow the advice tendered by the one agent referred to.

8499. By the CHAIRMAN: What do you mean by less interested?—Mr. Piesse is naturally interested seeing that wheat does not pass Katanning to go to Albany. A shipping agent would not have that interest.

8500. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Which agents gave you any advice on that question?—The agents dealing with Albany would give me advice.

8501. Verbal advice?—Yes, it was all verbal advice.

8502. There are no records of it?—Not so far as I know.

8503. By the CHAIRMAN: Do you claim that those agents advised you?—I claim that whatever action was taken that year was taken on the advice of the agents.

8504. Did the other agents advise you, yes or not?—Yes, they did. What I wish to point to is that there is no evidence to show that the advice was not considered. As a fact, any advice tendered was considered and given that consideration which the reputation, experience, and interest of the agent warranted.

8505. You mention "reputation." Do you employ agents not of good reputation who would not be able to advise you with advantage to the department?—If such were the case I would place but little reliance on their advice. In using the word "reputation" I am not making any reflection whatever on any of the agents.

8506. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Not even on Mr. Piesse?—No, I am merely stating facts.

8507. By the CHAIRMAN: You accused Mr. Piesse of having a personal interest?—Only his obvious interest. I am not accusing him of having any objectionable interest.