REPORT OF EVIDENCE. TUESDAY, 25th JUNE, 1918. (At Perth.) Present: Hon. W. C. Angwin, M.L.A. (Chairman). Hon. J. F. Allen, M.L.C., T. H. Harrison, Esq., M.L.A., S. M. Brown, Esq., M.L.A. WILLIAM DARTNELL JOHNSON, sworn and examined: 1. By the CHAIRMAN: As you were the Minister who first took part in the foundation of the Wheat Marketing Scheme, the Commission thought it advisable to get some information first of all from you in connection with the working of the Scheme from its inception? — I regret to say that I have not taken a great deal of interest in the Scheme of recent times. My interest has been purely a farmer's interest, and from the farmer's point of view, the less you think of this Scheme the better it is for your night's rest. I have been trying to forget it as much as possible because of late the Scheme has been an absolute nightmare to the farmer. To enable me to give the Commission any information of value, it will be necessary for me to look through the files so as to refresh my memory. I took a keen interest in the Scheme at the outset, but a good deal of water has flowed under the bridge since then. I am taken at a disadvantage just now, because I have only just concluded a big job and it will be rather difficult for me to take my mind back to the Wheat Marketing Scheme. At the outset the State Government,of which I was a member, received a communication from Mr. Fisher, who was then Prime Minister, with regard to the position of the producers which has arisen in consequence of the war difficulties. That communication was sent on to me as Minister for Lands and Agriculture, and in my reply to Mr. Scaddan, who was then Premier, I conveyed the information that the main essential was for the Commonwealth to assist us in getting shipping, that if something could be done to guarantee sea communication Western Australia would get through. I impressed upon Mr. Scaddan the necessity for communicating to the Federal Government the importance of shipping. Later on Mr. Hughes consulted the States individually, and I went to Melbourne to meet him. The first meeting was one between individuals representing the States as district from a conference of all the States. Mr. Hughes realised the difficulty in connection with shipping, and I outlined how we viewed the matter in Western Australia. Shortly afterwards a conference of the States was convened, and Mr. Hughes submitted the suggestion of the Commonwealth doing all the chartering of the shipping and distributing the tonnage chartered between the various States. We proceeded on those lines for some little time, but at the outset I could see a difficulty particularly from the Western Australian point of view, and I raised the question as to whether it would not be necessary to go further and pool the whole concern. That did not meet with favour at the outset; Mr. Hughes was not favourable to it. We proceeded then until the Commonwealth secured a certain amount of tonnage. In the meantime, Mr. Young of Elder, Smith & Co., and Mr. Bright of Gibbs, Bright & Co., were appointed chartering agents. They secured tonnage for December and January and part of February. Then we met for the purpose of finalising the arrangements by which the tonnage would be distributed between the various States. We proceeded to discuss it, and by that time the matter had been taken up seriously by the wheat merchants, the shipping companies, the shipping charterers, and others whose business we were interfering with. At the conference a number of the representatives of the various interests made representations that they should be heard in regard to their position. We met those representatives and amongst them were the representatives of the wheat agents who had attended to the purchasing and the shipping of the Australian wheat, namely, James Bell & Co., Darling & Co., Dreyfus & Co. and others. I had urged, and it was becoming clear to all the delegates, that we were going to experience a difficulty in connection with the distribution of the shipping, and consequently the general pooling idea was being more favourably considered. When we met the wheat agents I submitted a definite question to Mr. Darling, who was the main spokesman. I asked him, " Suppose we give you a certain amount of tonnage to enable you to ship wheat from Western Australia during December and January, and then we are not able to give you shipping space or guarantee tonnage for February, what would you do with regard to the farmers who had wheat that they could not supply in December and January, but who could give it in February?" The reply was that they would purchase sufficient wheat to fill the ships in December and January and then await developments. I was convinced we would then be in a hopeless position if we limited ourselves to the shipping only. I afterwards pointed out to the conference that if we gave these men the amount of shipping we had and we could not give a guarantee beyond it the result would be that they would get sufficient wheat from the favoured districts near the port, places like Northam, for instance, and they would not worry any further about the places outback. I had in mind the position held by the man outback where traffic complications would rise to a greater extent than would be the case in connection with the person nearer the coast, and the result would be that those outback would be in a hopeless position. They were the men we wanted to assist more than those nearer the coast, because they were limited to growing wheat entirely, whereas others engaged in mixed farming. I made it clear that the wheat agents would buy in the favoured districts nearest the coast and allow the other fellow to get what he could as the result of further chartering. After this had been generally discussed it was agreed that the position was hopeless unless we went further. Whether it was done at that conference or at another I cannot now say, but as the result of discussion with the various agents of the difficulties we could foresee for want of constant shipping, it became clear that we would have to take the full responsibility. From that time forward we set to work