55. The hostility ultimately proved to be from the farmers and settlers?—I think it was more from the farmers and settlers than the Legislative Council. 56. If there had been legislation at that time a number of the difficulties would not have existed?—Quite so, and I would not have had so many sleepless nights. 57. By Mr BROWN : With regard to that £40,000, was a writ issued against any firm?—No. We were of the opinion, from the evidence we had, that we could do what we wanted by legislation. We claimed that the clause in the Bill meant a certain thing, that is, that it was retrospective. The House, however, would not pass it, and referred the matter to a select committee, but the select committee did not think there was sufficient evidence to warrant them interpreting it that way, and they suggested that the matter should go to litigation. 58. By Mr HARRISON : You said that you were retarded in your efforts through lack of legislation, and afterwards you stated that the farmers and settlers were the greater culprits?—I mean with regard to the criticism of the legislation. 59. During the time that you were Minister did not the wheat growers assist you right through in connection with legislation?—Undoubtedly. 60. the representatives in Parliament of the wheat growers or agriculturalists right throughout were assisting the Government all they could with regard to forwarding these matters?—Yes. I was previously dealing more particularly with the Legislative Council and the criticism of the Press. I experienced no difficulty whatever so far as the members representing the farming interests were concerned. 61. By Hon J. F. ALLEN : With regard to the optional sale of wheat to the Pool or to private buyers, did you find that it was a great disadvantage for farmers having the right to sell outside the Pool?—Yes, it was a disadvantage at the outset but we ultimately overcame it. 62. BY the CHAIRMAN : It was because of the embargo placed on the exporting of any wheat?—that was it. 63. By Mr HARRISON : And the fact that the railways were not to carry any wheat sold?—that was afterwards. 64. By Hon J. F. ALLEN : In your time you had only moral suasion to rely upon?—That is so. 65. By the CHAIRMAN : No. Because in your time the Australian board, through their legislation, said that they would not permit of the exportation of any wheat purchased outside the scheme; and they also fixed the prices to be paid?—yes, that was so. 66. and they refused to aloe the exportation of any flour made from wheat purchased outside the scheme?—that was so. But some of the farmers were selling parcels at ridiculously low rates. It was distinctly understood at the start of the Pool that only wheat handled through the Pool or flour made from such wheat would be exported, but there was a great deal of difficulty with the local sales. However, the farmers began to realise the position, and it killed itself. 67. By Mr BROWN : In regard to the Farmers' Mercantile Union, there was a matter of a penny per bushel promised as a rebate?—the Farmers' Mercantile Union set out to get a monopoly of the handling of all the wheat in order that they might make a bigger profit out of the 3s. than would be possible if they handled only a portion of the wheat. With this end in view they offered a bonus or rebate of one penny per bushel, which was right against the spirit of the undertaking. Under the agreement they had to put up a £20,000 bond that they would carry out their obligations to the Pool. I sent for representatives of the Farmers' Mercantile Union, and told them that they could not give this penny rebate, and that if they persisted I would not appoint them an agent. Straight away the usual wires were pulled, politics were brought to bear, and ultimately a leading member of the Assembly asked me to see these people. I agreed to discuss the situation with them again, provided that he came with them. By this time I had secured a copy of the notice which they had sent out to the farmers, virtually promising one penny per bushel rebate. I told them I was prepared to appoint them an agent provided that their bond of £20,000 to carry out their obligations to the Pool should be made to cover also their obligations to the farmer, in fulfilment of which they should give the farmer his penny back. I know they could not do it. they would not agree. I said, " Those are my terns: you either withdraw that circular or you are not an agent." They would not withdraw the circular, and they were not appointed an agent. 68. Who fixed the 3d. as a fair charge?—The Australian Wheat Board. 69. Their contention was that they could have done it for twopence?—That is so. 70. Your Government had nothing to do with the fixing of the 3d?—No, except that I was present at the fixing. 71. By the CHAIRMAN : I noticed that the Westralian Farmers, Limited, also notified farmers that they would share with them any profits made?—I do not remember that, except that they would do that as an ordinary profit-sharing concern. 72. But this was fall all farmers?—I do not think the notice was actually issued. I remember some discussion over it, but I do not think it went very far. 73. By Mr HARRISON : They did not do anything in the first year?—Yes, a little. 74. By the CHAIRMAN : Mr Sutton reported the action of the Westralian Farmers, Limited, in withdrawing from publication, in deference to the expressed desires of the committee, and advertisement which had been sent along to the Press advising that they were prepared to make a rebate?—That was following the lead of the Farmers' Mercantile Union. 75. Did the Farmers' Mercantile Union refuse to withdraw the circular?—Yes. 76. I note that Piesse of Katanning made the same offer?—Yes, he was carpeted in regard to it. 77. He was let go because he wanted a special wheat?—Yes. 78. One reading these minutes might conclude that preference was shown tot he Westralian Farmers, Ltd., and to Piesse of Katanning, as against the Farmers' Mercantile Union?—In a sense that would be correct, because unfortunately for the Farmers' Mercantile Union they did it at the very outset, before the agreements were entered into, whereas the others did it after they were appointed agents, and they immediately withdrew it in deference to he representations of the board. 79. By Mr BROWN : The action at the time would not have had any influence on the subsequent year's transaction; there are no agents now?—I do not know anything about that. From my administrative point of view I did not want to add to the agents, because at the back of my head I thought to cut them all out. I had nothing whatever against the Farmers' Mercantile Union except that circular. As a matter of fact, I would be more likely to favour them as against those other companies controlled from the Eastern States. I did go out of my way to assist the Westralian Farmers, Ltd., to the extent that I encouraged them to make an effort to become agents, because I wanted to get West Australian firms interested in the wheat buying. For the same reason I would have helped the Farmers' Mercantile Union in the same way had they not made that initial blunder and afterwards got nasty about it. 80. In regard to various staff and their office accommodation, were they mostly taken from the other departments in your time?—Yes, I do not think we put on any new men. Even the typist was drawn from the department staff. 81. By Mr HARRISON : Were you able to do all your business in those small offices down there?—Yes, we got through. We worked on the most economical basis. The conference particularly congratulated us on our administration. 82. By the CHAIRMAN : You said at the commencement you thought the salary of the secretary and the allowance to the accountant were the only salaries charged against the Pool. Apparently you did not anticipate its becoming so exclusively a Government institution as it really is?—No. At the outset I set out to run it on the most economical lines. We had to pay the secretary the full salary because we took him from his work. We had a job to get a capable secretary, but eventually we obtained the services of Mr Hall. Then we gave the accountant a bonus, for he was still able to do his own work. I think we took one or two officers from the Agricultural Department and appointed them to go out and inspect the books in the various mills.