lost. In connection with that wheat, the business was very loosely conducted. No sufficient inquiry was made to determine the quantity of wheat in the hands of each miller at the time the wheat was taken over. I think you will find from the records that that is so. During that first year, owing to the want of a manager, and of proper inspectors—and no manager could conduct the business without proper inspectors—the stacking was in many cases very faulty. At that time the shipping trouble was not what it afterwards became, and no doubt when the wheat was being put together, it was thought that a good deal of it would be shipped fairly speedily. The dunnage used was small round timber, which naturally pressed into the ground, and thus caused some trouble. The roofing in some cases was very fault indeed. Unsuitable tarpaulins were used. It is almost impossible to cover a wheat stack with tarpaulins which will keep out the water for any length of time. Moreover, these tarpaulins were improvised ones, and not the ordinary shrunk canvas. The side screens were not properly put in, and some of the stacks were not properly cared for. A stack has to be properly dunnaged and covered, and properly side-screened, because the weather destroys the bags, quite apart from the destruction of the wheat; and the stack must also be properly watched. I remember a stack at Dowerin, put up by some of the firms, where every bag that burst was repaired and every pound of wheat that fell on the ground was picked up and cared for. That was not done in every case, as you will find from the records. I noticed that Mr. Hammond said a small stack at Quairading was not covered. Some few months ago I observed that a stack at Nangeenan had also been left uncovered. But under the agreement the agents are responsible for the out-turn of f.a.q. wheat. If any wheat is destroyed by rain, then under the agreement the agents must pay for it. The agents were not responsible for damage by weevils or mice, but otherwise they are responsible for proper out-turn of wheat received under the agreement, and for reasonable natural increase, too. In connection with the first year's stacks, there must have been millions of bushels of wheat. The aggregate weight is the weight taken, and that could not be ascertained whilst I was in office, because the wheat at that time had not been all shipped. The weight, of course, is taken at the point of delivery, or at the port of discharge. Now all the 1915-16 wheat has been shipped, it will be possible to ascertain just what has happened in connection with that. Mr. Sibbald has been criticised on the point, but if you take the three years, and if you look at the matter from the point of view of the agents, you will find that the position under Mr. Sibbald was far more satisfactory than the position before or since, for the reason that the Scheme was properly managed. I am not reflecting at all upon the present manager, because he was appointed late in the year; but so far as I know there are no complaints about the care or the stacking of the 1916-17 wheat. Previous to Mr. Sibbald's appointment the inspectors were insufficient in number, and could not, of course, assist the acquiring agents with advice at the time of stacking, which is, of course, the time when advice was wanted. Mr. Sibbald had full control of the work. In my time the system was for Mr. Sibbald to see me whenever he found it necessary. As a matter of fact, he did see me at all hours of the day and sometimes in the evening. If anything cropped up on which he wanted my advice or decision, he came into my room and got my advice or decision and went away with it. That does not appear on the files, but he came and asked for my advice or instructions and acted upon such advice or instructions. This year's wheat, of course, is now coming into stack. The delay in putting the wheat under cover will cause considerable loss, and that delay was due to the Minister's determination not to receive wheat until some time in January, instead of on the first day of stripping. That determination was unjust to the farmer, because it postponed for a considerable time the payment of his money, on a considerable portion of which he was in many instances paying interest to the Industries Assistance Board. The wheat had to stand in the field, where it does not improve, but loses weight, which, of course, will take up later on, after the wheat has been credited to him. Travelling to Perth yesterday I saw quite a large number of trucks in the Northam station yard and along the railway line, and many of the bags were discoloured while some of them were broken. I believe that the stacks put down at sidings to be shifted to the depôts were covered a few weeks ago, but it has to be remembered that during this year we have had a tremendous rainfall—nearly seven inches up to the end of May. During January we had 36 points, during February 253 points, March 110 points, April 117 points, May 177 points, and June 561 points. If this wheat has been subject to the greater proportion of that rainfall, it will be readily understood that the loss must be considerable. I hope that during the coming season the wheat will be received as soon as ever it is stripped, and that it will be got under cover at the earliest possible moment. I desire to offer some advice, if it is competent for me to do so, as regards the stacking of next year's wheat, if the present year's wheat is not shipped. In my opinion it is advisable to put considerable stacks in dry places near to ports. For example, Spencer's Brook is a dry place comparatively near to Fremantle. In connection with next year's handling, we should first endeavour to erect silos at country stations, and holding bins at country stations, for as much wheat as possible. In my opinion, that would pay if the cost is 1s. 6d. per bushel against the wheat we protect, judging by what is likely to be the loss during the present year from wet and weevil. I have some publications here dealing with Saskatchewan bulk handling, which I think may be of interest to the Commission; and I shall be glad to leave them with you. You will see that the system is Saskatchewan is to erect silos where 29 farmers cultivate a certain area, and where the crop totals 30,000 bushels. If the silos cannot be erected, I think it would be cheaper to revert to the stacking system at the more important stations, so that we should have a considerable quantity of wheat near the ports. This is a compulsory scheme on which the farmers must hand the wheat to the State, and the State must be responsible to the farmers for the proper handling of the wheat. The State is responsible to the extent of the guarantee which has been given, and for that reason it is necessary that the State shall take care of the wheat. I realise that if there be a loss or if the wheat realises more than 4s. and the general average is taken, the farmer will bear the whole of the loss. If I may refer for a moment to Mr. Hammond's evidence, particularly where he refers to me, I should like to. He says that under Mr. Johnson's administration the business was pleasant and expeditious; there was no delay. Of course, we know it may be pleasant for Mr. Hammond to sit on with Mr. Johnson, because we know his opinion in regard to me. He also says neglect was shown by the agents. That is not so. The majority of the agents during Mr. Johnson's time showed a proper and right interest in the work, and they did their work well. You will be able to get confirmation of that when you get their out-turn of the wheat. I may say, too, that I have found Mr. Stirling Taylor capable and willing to listen to reason. The stacks were not properly cared for in my opinion during the first year. Mr. Hammond said that I did not approach the Committee in a friendly way, and that some feeling existed. As far as I am able to judge, I did not think it fit and right to sit with them, but I did not treat them with suspicion and neglect. Finality was always reached, because I asked that the decisions should be recorded on the day they come to. Of course it must be understood that if the board met at intervals of a fortnight they could not wait a fortnight in order to give effect to their decisions. I asked that their decisions should be given effect to, and a clerk was kept there for that purpose. Mr. Hammond objected to Mr. Sibbald's appointment and my making it, but of course the Minister is responsible for the appointment of officials. Mr. Hammond also dealt with the question of giving information. He said with regard to accountancy, things became so chaotic at one time that the statements submitted from time to time were practically valueless. I do not know about that, but the accounts were always in good hands. At one time they were in the hands of Mr. Grogan, who was lent by the Agricultural Department or Agricultural Bank, and subsequently they went to Mr. Berkeley, who, as the chairman knows, is a capable officer. It was found advisable to shift the accounts, because it was becoming a fairly big thing, to the A.M.P. Buildings, and so that it would be under the control of those connected with