Wheat (1) - Part 1

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way as he makes use of the railway system to-day?—Much depends on that, too, because we have to provide safe storage for the wheat, and if it is a better proposition to store part of it in bulk storage, and a cheaper proposition than sheds, where is the difference between charging the Pool with part of the cost of bulk storage and erecting the sheds?

437. Would not one be a permanent undertaking, while the other would be only temporary?—Certainly.

438. Would not the cost be considerably higher?—Yes; but it has never been decided yet that the Scheme will be charged with any of the cost.

439. If I mistake not, under the Wheat marketing Act any action taken by the committee, or taken on their advice, has to be charged to the Wheat Marketing Scheme?—That would not apply to the bulk storage.

440. But could the committee deal with anything unless it was under the Wheat Marketing Act?—I think so, because they are an advisory committee on wheat marketing and, in addition, a committee on bulk handling.

441. That is, their powers have been extended by Ministerial action which is not provided for in the Act?—Extended by the Governor in Council.

442. That is just the same thing?—But I would like to put it plainly in evidence.

443. Any money expended in investigating the bulk handling scheme could not be charged to the Wheat Pool under the Act?—I do not know that. I would not like to speak on that matter without going into it.

444. It is a legal question, I admit. Dealing with bulk handling now, could you tell me what was the decision of Lloyd's surveyor that prevented the "Kangaroo" from being loaded in bulk at Geraldton and Fremantle?—The decision was that it would not be safe for her to travel between the ports part loaded.

445. That was the only reason?—The only reason I knew of.

446. Was the matter referred to Lloyd's as to her going direct from Fremantle with bulk wheat?—Certainly they agree to that.

447. It was turned down on one occasion previously? Not that I am aware of. Lloyd's said there was no difficulty in the way of the "Kangaroo" loading at Fremantle with bulk wheat and proceeding to an oversea port.

448. Have you had many claims from the wheat agents in regard to damage, the cause of which they claim they are not responsible for?—We have the re-conditioning claims from agents from who have re-conditioned wheat. That would cover your question, I think.

449. Have any of the claims been settled?—I believe some have been. I am not quite sure now. It is some time ago. I think two have been settled.

450. A claim was made by Dreyfus & Co. for damage by mice. Has that been settled?—I could not tell you without refreshing my memory by looking up the papers.

451. In the minutes of the advisory committee dated the 17th May this year, I note it was decided that the general manager should finalise these claims of the firm when in Melbourne at the end of this month, and also the claims put forward by the Scheme. That refers to Dreyfus & Co. in regard to commission on surplus, etc. Was that done?—No; it has not been completed. In fact, there is one claim which will have to go to arbitration.

452. Has Mr. Keys, who was the manager for the Scheme, entirely severed his connection with Dreyfus & Co.?—Mr. Keys is lent to the Scheme by Dreyfus & Co. during the time I consider I need his services.

453. Do not you think the position is liable to the construction that Mr. Keys, if he is still an officer of Dreyfus & Co., is not the man who should finalise claims in regard to that company?—To those who are not aware of the class of man Mr. Keys is, it may seem so.

454. Of course, there are very few who know him?—The committee and myself know Mr. Keys, and we have every confidence in the world in him.

455. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Still, he is human?—He is human, but the claims are in such a position that, in any case, even if he so desired, he could not do anything detrimental to the Scheme.

456. By the CHAIRMAN: I do not suppose he could; but, at the same time, a man cannot very well tell his boss, "You must do so and so"?—Dreyfus & Co. are not Mr. Keys' bosses now.

457. You stated that Mr. Keys is with the Government only on loan?—He is handed over to us during the time we consider we require him, which of course means some considerable time.

458. I notice arrangements have been made for a sterilising plant for weevil treatment?—I do not think any arrangements have been made. As a matter of fact, my knowledge is that so far a stage has not been reached when arrangements could satisfactorily be made. That is the last advice I have on the matter.

459. Has the weevil been very bad here in Western Australia?—No, not anything comparable to the other States. We have had a little difficulty; unfortunately we have no silos in which to treat the wheat. The only way available now to control the weevil is by gristing in the mills, and it is impossible for the mills to keep up. If that were so we could control it absolutely.

460. Did you ever receive a direct report outside the minutes in regard to the treatment and experiments of the weevil, treatment plants used in the other States?—Yes, several reports.

461. Mr. Love, a member of the Imperial Commission was sent here for the purpose of looking into the matter?—Yes, he is in control of the Imperial purchase of wheat in Australia.

462. Are you aware that he is satisfied with the plants treating weevily wheat in the other States?—I am not. Even in conversation during this last trip he said that some of the machines appear to be satisfactory, but he is not sanguine. In addition to that Mr. Pearse, who has gone right through this matter, is not satisfied that there is a perfect machine. I may tell you that the Imperial Government have spent £10,000 out here in experimenting with machines, but have not reached perfection.

463. Let me read this to you.

Mr. Love,—I went over to the Sydney. One of the machines was built to our specification by Poole & Steele. They put some wheat through on Tuesday afternoon. The wheat was from a rejected pile, and the grain was very full of weevil. The machine has an arrangement for picking out the very rough stuff, which is passed into the heating chamber and subjected to 140 degrees of heat. We could not see any trace of weevil on the wheat when it came out of this chamber. It has not been scientifically investigated of course, but the life moving weevil disappeared. Whether any weevil was inside we did not go into that question. Apart from the weevil killing, it made the wheat totally different to what it was when it left the bags. After it had been through the machine you would hardly have recognised it as the same grain. The machine perhaps wanted some tuning up, but it was really effective. Of Robinson's machine, which has a larger capacity, all the machinery was on the ground at Enfield, and will probably be working at the end of this week. It will have a capacity of 800 to 1,000 bushels an hour, and appears to be very effective, at any rate in theory if not in practice. Robinson's machine has cylinders inside, and Professor Lefroy had one cylinder made as a trial about five weeks ago; the wheat that was passed through that cylinder was subjected to 140 degrees. He has been endeavouring to grow weevil in this grain since, but has not been successful. I consider that is satisfactory. This cylinder is really an englargement of the one cylinder by which the sets were made. I think you can see that the machines as far as they have worked are going to be satisfactory, and it is, I believe, a matter of expense only for you to see the weevil eliminated.

That is Mr. Love's statement?—Still there is no proof that they are absolutely satisfactory. A machine may prove satisfactory in cleaning the weevil out, but the costs may be too heavy.

464. This statement goes on to say—

Mr. Giles: The loss in weight would vary? Mr. Love: Yes. Mr. Drummond and I certainly were astounded at such a small loss of weight. We did not have them weighed exactly, but out of those bags, every one that went through, there were about 1 to 1½ lbs. in each bag. Otherwise, there is a little dust damage, loss of weight.