You brought in the question of speculation. The object of the Pool was to eliminate that. The millers would have been glad to have made arrangements to buy the wheat as they had been doing in the past, but an arrangement was made whereby they could not do this. We would not allow them to do it in the interests of the Pool.

861. What difference did it make to the question of speculation that they were unable to export?—Wheat has been exported. Even in the local trade the price might have gone up or gone down. It is difficult to compare what was done in normal times with what is being done now. Under the Scheme the trading conditions were not at all normal.

862. Did you have much difficulty in keeping the shipping agents up to their agreements during the first year?—Not a great deal, but there were minor difficulties. There was no more difficulty than one would anticipate in a scheme of the kind. The shipping agents worked well and did what was reasonable and just as far as they could.

863. You do not know of there being much neglect so far as the wheat was concerned?—There was no wilful neglect.

864. The whole business by the agents was carried out successfully so far as could reasonably be expected?—Yes. There were matters which could have been improved upon, but some of the defects were due to the conditions which obtain here. For instance, we had not experienced stackers in the country nor experience sub-agents as is the case in the Eastern States. Some of the work was not done as well as we would have liked, but we had to take into consideration the conditions which prevailed.

865. Do you think they have done as well acting on behalf of the Pool as they would have done had they been acting on their own behalf?—I believe they did.

866. Was ever a thing that was done by the Advisory Board in the first place done by the board as an executive body?—All the operations of the Wheat Scheme during the first year to which I refer were controlled and dictated by the Advisory Board and the Minister. The Minister was there, matters were discussed, and decisions arrived at, and the decisions were then given effect to.

867. You were really an executive body?—I suppose so in that connection. The Minister by giving effect to our decisions made us an executive body.

868. I believe you were off the board for about six months?—Yes.

869. Has there been any improvement in the new system as against the previous system?—I do not think there could be much improvement. Viewing all the considerations regarding the Wheat Scheme, I think what was originally aimed at was as good as we could have obtained.

870. You do not think that the appointment of a manager to control the Scheme on the advice of the board was any improvement on what previously appertained?—That is a different thing. The volume of business has increased, and because of that it is necessary to have more officers of the board than were required at the beginning. I was referring to the functions of the advisory board only when I said I thought it was as good as we could get. Owing to the volume of business that is being done, it is now necessary to have a bigger staff. At that time we had no technical men on the staff, but it is now necessary to have a technical man who can devote the whole of his time to the work.

871. Is the manager directly under the committee or is he under the Minister?—Under the Minister.

872. He takes no instructions from the Committee at all?—No, the Committee being purely advisory. Under the old scheme we had a secretary who took his instructions from me, and carried out the work indicated by the Minister.

873. He was really acting as manager though not possessing the technical knowledge required for the handling of wheat?—We did not regard him in that light.

874. You first discussed matters as an executive committee, and the decision arrived at was handed over by you as Chairman?—That is not the way we looked at it. We discussed matters as an advisory committee, and the Minister by his action gave effect to our decisions as if they were those of an executive committee. The matters that were carried out were carried out either by Mr. Hall or myself. Mr. Hall as secretary was in charge of the staff, but now the manager is in charge of the staff.

875. Do you think that an improvement?—It is necessary to have a technical man who understands the business in charge of the staff.

876. The manager attends committee meeting regularly now?—Yes.

877. Does the Minister also attend?—He attends very regularly, and has done so except on occasions when he has been out of town.

878. You had nothing to do with the staff?—No.

879. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: The purchasing price for the millers was 4s. 9d.?—Not always. I could not say what the prices were.

880. Do you know of any millers having purchased at 4s. 6d. from the Scheme when the price was supposed to have been 4s. 9d.?—That could not have been so far as I know. On one occasion we made a sale to a miller of some inferior wheat, and it was sold below the declared rate on account of its inferiority.

881. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: In what way has the volume of business increased?—In the early days of the Scheme our staff consisted of Mr. Hall, an assistant, and the accountant. With regard to the business we have to care for the stacks, we had two Pools to carry over, depôts to consider, and I understand the Scheme is doing its own shipping. All these things have increased the volume of business.

882. The manager now has a technical staff under him?—Yes. There was no necessity for a staff like that in the first instance, because the work was being done by the agents as they were handling the business and the Pool was expected to end September, 1916.

883. The increase in work and the staff is caused by a reduction in the duties of the agents?—That is not quite the only reason. Owing to the longer period that we have to store wheat it is necessary to have more supervision than was the case. In the early days of the Scheme everything was new. There was no deterioration going on, and the necessity for supervision was not as great as it is now. I am not quite familiar with the duties of the present agents.

884. Were the Westralian Farmers, Ltd., in existence when the Pool first started?—Yes. I am doubtful whether they were operating as wheat merchants, but we had unquestionable evidence that they intended to operate during the next season and had made arrangements to do so.

885. Who are the local agents of that firm in the country?—In many cases they are the local residents, I understand. At Kondinin the agent is a local resident.

886. What experience would they have as sub-agents other than that which they acquired through the existence of the Pool?—I cannot say. The man at Kondinin had experience.

887. By Mr. HARRISON: Were not nearly all the country agents working under the Westralian Farmers sub-agents of the other firm when they were acquiring wheat for themselves privately?—I am not able to answer that question authoritatively, but I have heard the general manager say that is was not so.

888. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Instead of having two bodies, the Wheat Scheme and the Westralian Farmers, Ltd., doing the work, do you see any difficulty in the manager of the Scheme taking over the whole thing and utilising existing agencies?—I do see difficulties.

889. What difficulties particularly?—One difficulty is a difficulty that obtains with all Government concerns.

890. This would be a scheme concern under the present management, and not a Government concern?—The present manager would not have the same facilities for doing business as under a private firm.

891. But if he were under an Executive Board instead of under a Minister, any political influence or control thus being removed?—It would not remove some of the difficulties. Some of the difficulties would continue to exist.

892. Can you specify any one difficulty?—I have already indicated a difficulty, the very fact of being connected with the Government. Even if the scheme