Wheat (1) - Part 1

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2012. How would you account for Mr. Johnson having been so misled by the millers acquiring the wheat for themselves prior to that date, misled as regards the actual figures?—I was not present at that meeting. I do not know just what took place. It is quite possible that millers did not know what they had purchased. Under ordinary private conditions it is not, I think, usual for one miller to tell another miller exactly what he has purchased; and probably there was a good deal of suspicion amongst the millers at that time with regard to exactly what was in operation.

2013. You do not think it would be because the individual miller did not know his standing at that date?—He must have known it approximately, or else he was a very poor business man, or his records were very poor.

2014. You would not think a discrepancy of that magnitude could arise from lack of information from the sub-agents in the country—from the sub-agents not forwarding advice of their purchases?—I do not think so. It is usual for a sub-agent to wire his principal each night the amount of purchases made.

2015. You found that the usual practice?—That is the general practice.

2016. Do the Government get, or do the Western Australian Pool get, an advance from the banks on shipment of wheat, or when the wheat reaches the terminus?—It all depends. In connection with some shipments the documents are discounted here. Other shipments go forward with the documents undrawn-for, to cut out loan moneys already advanced to us by the Imperial Government.

2017. How does that affect the Pool as regards interest?—If we get the cash here against documents, it reduced the local overdraft interest. If a vessel goes forward undrawn-for, it goes forward because we have already received moneys; and the moneys that we have received are reducing the local overdraft interest; but, at the same time, we are paying five per cent. interest on them.

2018. It is not possible for the loan funds to get an advantage in the matter of interest to the disadvantage of the Pool?—No. When I say that, there is one way in which loan moneys could get an advantage, but it has never occurred, and is not likely to occur. It would be possible, if loan moneys were so large that they obliterated the whole of the local overdrafts and gave us a credit balance throughout Australia. In that case, we would be paying five per cent, on the loan moneys while getting no corresponding credit a the banks. But we have never been, and are never likely to be, in that position.

2019. What part of the Scheme were you administering at the time Mr. Hammond complained of the weekly returns?—At that time I was inspector of agencies and accounts.

2020. That was when you had to do with the millers?—Yes; and I had also charge of the certificate portion of the Scheme; but I had nothing much to do with the indoor work otherwise.

2021. You realise that the board administering the affairs of the Pool at that time would be at a great disadvantage if they did not get up-to-date matters regarding finance?—With regard to the millers' accounts, certainly; but with regard to the rest of the finance, it was largely financed with the central executive in Melbourne.

2022. Are there any records of costs relative to wheat so damaged that it was dumped?—We could have to pay an account if the wheat was taken out in a boat and dumped. If it was carted and dumped at a sub-agent's siding, it is quite possible that that might be done without any payment being sought.

2023. Is there any chance of checking the quantity that had to be dumped?—We know that a certain quantity of wheat has gone into a stack. We can tell exactly how much is accounted for in coming out. Any considerable discrepancy would be inquired into.

2024. But there is no actual way of getting at the loss, at the quantity of wheat not marketable in any way?—It would be very hard, owing to the fact that it is very hard to estimate the natural increase which would have taken place and which would be obliterated, or partly obliterated, by any damage that the wheat might suffer.

2025. Have you seen a return of that kind (produced)?—Yes.

2026. Can you account for it how Ockerby has no surplus and yet was an acquiring agent as well as a miller?—Yes. It would be very hard to fix Ockerby's surplus, for the simple reason that portions of his stacks have gone overseas, portions into his mill, and portions from country stacks to Fremantle and afterwards railed back. We would be largely dependent upon Ockerby's figures for the wheat received at mills, to enable us to get the total out-turn of his wheat; and it would be necessary to get the total out-turn before we could ascertain the natural increase.

2027. The weather conditions would affect Ockerby's wheat the same as other people's wheat?—Yes, just the same.

2028. There would be a surplus through climatic conditions, which would be absorbed in Mr. Ockerby's own business?—Provided that his increase was in the same proportion as these other people's I should say yes.

(The witness retired.)


ROBERT SHAW MITCHELL PATON, Officer in charge of the Wheat Scheme at North Wharf, Fremantle, sworn and examined:

2029. By the CHAIRMAN: You have been engaged in connection with the Wheat Scheme almost from the first?—Since May 1st, 1916.

2030. You were the first inspector appointed?—That is so.

2031. As an inspector, you have had a good deal to do in reporting at the various stacks about the country?—Yes, all the 1915-16 season.

2032. Could you tell the Commission whether due care was taken or not in regard to the handling of the wheat?—Of course there were some stations where a good deal of carelessness existed, and at other stations where they were better cared for and protected. At some sidings it is exceedingly difficult to get reliable men who are capable of taking on the work. Some had never had previous experience in the handling of wheat, and in that case the usual result followed that much be expected.

2033. That applied from the commencement?—Yes.

2034. So the acquiring agents who were experts in the handling of wheat from the commencement of the Scheme to this year had a number of men who were not experienced in the handling of wheat?—I say that certain of their agents were inexperienced and certain of them were careless, and it appeared impossible to keep them under control so as to get the full desired results.

2035. So that the complaints which they are making in regard to the present system about the Westralian Farmers Ltd., having to rely on new men also applied to them?—No, that is not so, because the agents had men at all the important stations who had more or less experience of value to them, some quite lengthy experience, and some were really good men. The weakness with the Westralian Farmers was more marked than with the other agents. Frequently for sale agents they were relying on farmers who lived a long distance from the sidings and, having their ordinary farm work to look after, could not properly attend to wheat stacks and their own business of farming at the same time.

2036. Am I to take it from your answer that the men appointed by private agents outside the Westralian Farmers were in a position to have their stacks looked after better than the stacks acquired by the Westralian Farmers?—Generally speaking, yes, absolutely.

2037. The reason for that is that they had more experienced men accustomed to the work?—Yes, men whose sole duty was looking after agency work. The farmer who is going to make good at farming has to devote the whole of his time, and when he attempts to run a farm and give necessary attention to wheat agency work he cannot successfully do both. The time arrives when wheat stacks must be under continuous supervision to maintain upkeep.

2038. Have you done inspection in the country this year?—No, all my time has been occupied at the wharf in connection with shipping and local deliveries.