2111. By Mr. HARRISON: Would such shipments live longer in the memory of the consignees than good wheat would? — I have no idea of what conditions prevailed at the ports of destination. Those receiving the cargo may have disappeared in the war.

2112. By the CHAIRMAN: You are satisfied that under normal conditions that wheat would not have been accepted at the other end? — I should say not.

2113. Then the person who sent it was taking advantage of the British purchaser by reason of the war? — I would not say he did that with intent, but it appears to me that that would be the effect. His intent would be to get rid of his stuff.

2114. He must have known perfectly well that the wheat was not fit to be shipped? — No. The wet wheat is what I particularly have in my mind at the present time, and I do not know whether the shippers knew much about it.

2115. They paid no attention to the shipping of it? — I do not think they knew the business. In fact, I know they did not.

2116. Sending wheat of that description, is it not possible to do an injury to the Westralian wheat trade from a marketing point of view? — Absolutely, unless the conditions existing today are forgotten. I take it also that everybody at the other end of the world knows our wheat has been held in stack for some time. We must make an allowance for war conditions.

2117. Have you seen any silos about? — Yes, in Africa.

2118. What were they constructed of there principally — Wood, concrete, and iron.

2119. Has there been any trouble as far as the wooden silos are concerned in regards to weevil ?—Yes, I know that one important mill, and the manager said that when the wheat was put in the silos he had, at certain periods of the year, to elevate it every 10 or 12 days to keep down the weevil. He also said they got on better when they stacked the wheat in open sheds because they had the benefit of the surrounding air and the cold cutting winds which always reduced the weevil risk.

2120. Did weevil appear in the concrete silos as well ?—Not so quickly. There is no abode there for them. When you empty the concrete or iron silos there are no crevices in which they can secrete themselves, but in the wooden silos there are the interstices in which the weevil becomes secreted. That is the opinion I formed myself after seeing them. In wooden silos there are hiding places for the weevils and in the crevices there must be a certain amount of wheat on which the weevil will live. There is evidence on the wharves today where weevils would survive under the sleepers for an indefinite period.

2121. By Mr. BROWN: Was that silo long in operation in South Africa ?—I could not say the length of time, but I think some years.

2122. If we had jarrah silos here for our wheat for two or three years would weevil be a menace if we had new timber ?—I would not like to have new timber: it would shrink and cause crevices.

2123. Not if nailed down with five inch nails. Have you seen the Perth Mill silos ?—Yes.

2124.There is no shrinkage there, and that was absolutely green timber. were inspectors publicly advertised for the Scheme ?—No.

2125. Who made your appointment ?—I was appointed in Mr. Johnson's time. The Advisory Board was in operation at that time, and it was felt that an inspector was necessary. I think it was on Mr. Giles's recommendation.

2126. Mr. Giles was on board at that time ?—Yes he knew by experience.

2127. With regard to the thirty-nine trucks dumped over the mole, was much of it in bags ?—No, a maximum of half a dozen bags.

2128. You said Lloyd's representative spoke highly about your loading of the "Austral Brook." Who was he? — Captain Arundell.

2129. Has he been long in Fremantle? — As long as I remember.

2130. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: What firms were you employed by in the wheat business prior to the Scheme ?—Wigmore & Co., Ockerby, Lehmann & Co., when they were in existence, and Ockerby both before and after.

2131. No other acquiring agents under the Pool, that is Ockerby, Bell & Co., Dreyfus, Darling, or Dalgety ?—No. I was Dalgety's employ for about five minutes but they were not at that time in the wheat trade except as auctioneers.

2132. How did Dreyfus' wheat open up as compared with other agents ?—Dreyfus & Co. have had both good and bad; they have had some of the finest wheat which has gone out of the port. It has gone up to 63¾ lbs. per bushel.

2133. I am speaking more from the point of view of caretaking of the stacks ?— Dreyfus & Co. handled a larger volume than any other firm during the 1915-16 season; and the wastage might show more with them in that case. Certain of their sub-agents must have given them considerable anxiety at the time. They had inspectors with the necessary qualifications.

2134. How did they compare with Westralian Farmers? — Better.

2135. Or Bell & Co. ?— Bell & Co were more conservative. They operated at very few sidings as compared with Dreyfus & Co.; some of their agents were not all that could be desired. Dreyfus had good agents at some stations and at others quite the reverse. There were sidings in existence and plenty of them, which if it were necessary to stack there and I were controlling a private concern I should say we will stand right off to that siding altogether, but those who butted in took the business and paid the cost by experience which they might have avoided by standing out.

2136. If the effect of competition were eliminated as at present do you think it would be more economical or advantageous if the whole of the handling and acquiring of wheat was done by the Scheme ?—Quite so, I do not think any agency is necessary because the performances to-day are absolutely deplorable. No private firm could exist and stand it. We see it every day in the week at Fremantle; we get all the culls in the State down there. Every mill that has a bad truck will shoot it to Fremantle; every siding that has a bad truck bungs it to Fremantle. We have had numerous reject trucks and more than 50 or 75 per cent. of the wheat cold have been used for milling purposes if it had been skillfully handled at the country station, but it has been most unskillfully handled; it goes to the mills and they turn it down and send it on to us. Beautiful wheat has been mixed with rubbish. Every day we are receiving rejected wheat and we have been pretty constantly at it.

2137. By Mr. HARRISON; You have just told Mr. Allen that it is better for the scheme to control the whole? — Absolutely.

2138. In your opinion the most essential part of wheat handling is by the sub-agents ?—Yes, because if they do not do their work no other man has a chance of winning out.

2139. No subsequent operation can eliminate the damage done? — That is so.

2139a. Would it be better to have sub-agents responsible to the Scheme direct, or the Scheme take the whole ?—No, whilst it is a national business I would just about cut out the sub-agent altogether. Wherever there were men offering with special qualifications for handling wheat I would place them there in preference to perhaps a Government man without the necessary qualifications, because it may be impossible to get the required number of qualified men within the service.

2140. The acquiring agents have made themselves secure by the conditions of their agreement? — Yes, just as far as they could.

2141. It therefore rested on the shoulders of the sub-agent to fulfil his contracts to the letter or else he had to pay any loss out of his commission ?—That would be so with a private firm. I have heard sub-agents say they were not paid to take care of wheat; they were paid to acquire wheat and they considered they had done their bit when it has been stacked.

2142. You were the inspector in the country districts for the Scheme in the 1915-16 and the 1916-17 harvest and then you went to the wharf ?—Yes.

2143. Did the sub-agents then follow out your instructions in regard to the saving of the wheat ?—I never had power to give them instructions. I could only recommend. My position was that of reporting on the conditions as I saw them and I was advised that the moment I started instructing. I assumed responsibility and gave the Pool a responsibility which they hoped to finally settle on the agents' shoulders. There were some, however, who did take my sugges-