moved we were not allowed to truck a bag of wheat out of our yard. We were then told that the wheat would be railed as it was received, but we had not long commenced loading when we received orders from the Westralian Farmers' office to cease doing so until further notice. We did not know the reason for this. There is bound to be disorganisation if the Scheme try to control the handling of wheat after it has been placed in the hands of the agents. Very recently we were removing two stacks of wheat which were considerably damaged and rotten, and required a fair amount of re-bagging. We had men on loading and re-bagging that wheat on contract, and they were working from daylight until after dark. They even worked with two lanterns in order that they might make a fair day's pay. This did not run into over a pound, although in some cases the men were working for twelve hours. After a week they told us they would not continue. I visited the sites and immediately saw that they were not getting fair remuneration for their work. We therefore determined to put the men on at once to clean up the stacks under the day labour system. As soon as we wired that information to the head office they communicated it to the board. They then wired to us as follows: "We suggest offering your contractors one penny one-eighth per bag to complete the loading of this stack. If they will not take this we will send from Perth a gang which is prepared to do it." I replied that we had more respect for our labourer than to attempt to offer this to them, but that I would read their wire and communicate the result. I did communicate the result, but not in the language with which the men refused. We then wrote to the head office and told them it was only an attempt to sweat the men, to deceive them by sending them up and telling them they could earn a living wage at one penny one one-eighth per bag.

2887. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: They could have earned it had they the trucks?—Yes. This is where disorganisation is likely to occur in every instance.

2888. By the CHAIRMAN: These were old stacks?—No; it was this year's wheat. The manager and myself immediately wired saying we would not be a party to deceiving the men in this way. We undertook the risk of putting these men on by day labour and removing the stack, and depending on the honour of the Board to fight the matter out afterwards. To offer these men one penny one-eighth per bag in this instance meant that they would not earn more than 9s. or 10s. a day. That is a sweating wage for the work they had to do, and we would not be parties to such an arrangement. We, as agents, undertook to forfeit the balance and pay the men, who had been honourably working and had done their duty. We have yet to fight the matter out with the Board as to whether they will pay the men for the labour they have done. Some people argue that 500 to 600 bags a day can be loaded. This can be done, but when one remembers the amount of re-bagging to be done at a stack like that, one cannot help thinking that if the men do 200 a day they are doing a good day's work, that is 100 bags a man.

2889. By Mr. HARRISON: Was the stack in a bad condition?—Yes.

2890. And yet it was wheat collected this year?—Yes.

2891. What was the cause of its bad condition?—It had not been temporarily roofed, and the mice were bad. Furthermore, there had been 10½ inches of rain on it, and the water had gone down seven bags into the stack. The bags were growing and rotten.

2892. Your stacks were in an abnormal condition?—Yes.

2893. Where were they situated?—One was at Yalberring and the other at Eujinyn.

2894. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: How were the foundations of the stacks?—They were dry, but damaged by mice.

2895. By Mr. HARRISON: When were you trucking the stacks?—Recently. We finished last week. They had had the June rains upon them. These did not do a great amount of damage, such as the previous rains had done, but they added to the damage nevertheless. This shows that some better system than that of dual control is necessary for the better handling of the wheat. We claim that it is absolutely unnecessary for a Government department to control the matter at all. So long as they have the security of the wheat they are only mortgagees and not the owners, and should not interfere in the handling and marketing of the wheat when there are agents perfectly competent to do the work. Mr. Paton said that it has been his experience that farmers are in the habit of making up weights and that they are out for weight all the time. He said in some instances he had found old coats, cart axles, and iron wrapped up in the bags in order to make up the weight.

2896. By the CHAIRMAN: He said that had occurred before the Pool and that he had seen it in the mills?—The Press report conveyed the idea that the remarks applied to present conditions. That is an absolute libel on the farming community.

2897. He said he had seen it?—I do not know of any farmers who would be so low as to do these things. I have yet to learn that a farmer can make more out of putting coats, axles, or old iron into bags than he can by going on with his work and taking his wheat straight from the harvest to where it can be marketed. I have also yet to learn that there are so many coats and pieces of iron lying about a farm that they could be made use of in that way. Such statements are misleading. I am sure the gentleman has been carried away. I resent the accusation as a farmer and on behalf of the body of farmers, who, I believe, are endeavouring to do what is honest and right to the community. I may say that we get very little return for what we do. For a gentleman to make a statement like that to a Royal Commission is absolutely disgraceful. It is a great reflection upon a community which is acknowledged to be the backbone of the country.

2898. A man has only to be a farmer to become honest?—That is not so. I do not accuse any man of being dishonest, but I accuse a man of having a mind which is dishonest when he makes a statement like that.

2899. By Mr. BROWN: When you put the lumpers on to day wages, what payment were they getting?—Two shillings an hour of eight hours a day.

2900. Was there any broken time?—No, except when we had to wait for bags or twine, which were supplied by the Scheme. We had to get our new bags and twine from the Scheme. There was a little delay on that account; but, fortunately, we were able to borrow from farmers to go on with, so that the men would not have broken time. We did borrow, and the 2,000 odd bags that we used have still to be recouped. Had it not been for those bags, we would certainly have had the men on broken time.

2901. Was the quality of the bags you got from the farmers equal to what you returned?—We have not yet returned.

2902. Were they new bags that you got form the farmers?—Yes; last season's bags.

2903. By the CHAIRMAN: I suppose any delay taking place in the delivery of bags or cornsacks you would date from the time you sent in your requisition to the Westralian Farmers?—No. We usually send in a requisition several days beforehand.

2904. I notice that for Yalberin the Westralian Farmers sent a letter on the 11th June asking for 200 cornsacks. It was received on the 13th June by the State Wheat Marketing Committee. The bags were ordered to be sent forward on the 15th June by the Committee. There is not much delay there?—There is not much delay; but one wonders why it should take two days to get the letter from the Westralian Farmers to the Board's office, and then two days for the Board's office to telephone to some department to send on the bags.

2905. But on the 12th June some cornsacks and twine had been sent to Yalberin?—That is very likely, too. 2906. If you were in a position to send direct, would not you save two days?—That is, in effect, our contention. 2907. You said that owing to this year's system the cost of handling had been reduced to a minimum?—I did not say, to a minimum; but, perhaps to a minimum. 2908. How do you know that the cost has been reduced to perhaps a minimum?—From my experience that the handling costs just about allow the agent sufficient to administer the handling. 2909. But you must admit that this year the agent is not carrying the responsibility which he carried previously—either the local agent or the Westralian