loading, 5½ days cleaning up; wages £155 16s. 6d. S.s. "Glendevon," 1915-6 wheat, 33 men and 8 boys, 7 days loading, 5½ days cleaning up; wages £203 12s. 5d. S.s. "Austral Crag," 1915-16 wheat, 27 men and 7 boys, 6 days loading, 3 days cleaning up; wages £173 2s. 5d. S.s. "War Queen," 1915-16 wheat, 28 men and 5 boys, 6 days loading, 4 days cleaning up; wages £100 5s. 5d. S.s. "Boyazides," 1915-16 wheat, 21 men and 5 boys, 4 days loading, clean up was interfered with by the weather; wages £125 9s. S.s. "Austral Mead," 1916-17 wheat, 30 men and 7 boys, 7½ days loading, 3 days cleaning up; wages £106 4s. 9d. I have attached those returns of the men employed on every ship we have loaded because Mr. Paton said that we employed a lot of boys instead of men. 3034. We can get Mr. Cohen as a witness?— Oh, yes, at any time. I have here a long letter which came in this morning from Mr. Hayes, who was at that time our chief wheat accountant in the office. He says that the whole thing is a distortion of fact. I believe the bad feeling between us and Mr. Paton was unwittingly caused by me. It came about in this way: I am a member of the Harbour Trust, and I was on the wharf in company with the other Commissioners one day, when the "Austral Brook" was being loaded by the government. Standing about we agreed that far too many men were employed on the stack than could economically work it; some men having to stand aside to make room for others. This was admitted by all of us. A little later at an interview between Mr. Baxter, Mr. Keys, Mr. Taylor, and myself, I casually mentioned this. The thing was taken seriously and Mr. Paton was written to for an explanation. His letter, which you have there is an hysterical concoction, and in several instances it contains definite lies. For instance, Mr. Paton says that nine tons of wheat were underneath the wharf, which he invited Mr. Taylor, our manager, to see, and that Mr. Taylor refused to see it. I say that is a deliberate, absolute lie. In the first place the idea of there being nine tons of wheat distributed on beams under the wharf is childish. In the second place Mr. Taylor. during the loading of that vessel, was constantly under the wharf, being in charge of arrangements for picking up wheat under the wharf. Mr. Paton, in the heat of his resentment,has penned a letter absolutely hysterical. Unfortunately, the Harbour Trust Commissioners, who had watched the stack from the wharf that day, resolved upon the writing of a letter to the Wheat Scheme, pointing out to them that the care of the stacks on the North Fremantle side since the Government have taken over, was faulty, and that the stacks were not in so good a condition as when held by the merchants, and that the Commissioners would not be responsible if the stacks came to any harm through the faulty condition of such stacks. I would like to know whether that letter is on the file. 3035. I cannot say whether it is here. We have not yet had an opportunity of perusing all the files ?—I would like to ask the Commission to have that letter produced. 3036. We will try to find it ?—From the other side one could see the broken screens flapping and tearing, and the stacks were in a disgraceful condition. 3037. There may be a file dealing with the stacks on the wharf. I have not yet seen it. The only letter I have come across was a letter written to the Harbour Trust ?—Oh, yes, about statements I made. No doubt that letter is on file. That is all I have to say about past evidence, because it is all I have seen of it. 3038. So far you are making your statement on hearsay evidence by Mr. Taylor and Mr. Cohen in respect to the wastage of wheat on the wharf ?—Yes, on the reports made to me by my officers. The "Kangaroo" is the only ship I did not see loaded, and the reports I had in regard to her were in conformity with what I had seen on every other ship. 3039. How many times did you load the "Kangaroo" ?—Only once, I think. 3040. You say that Mr. Paton told a lie when he declared that Mr. Taylor did not go to see the wheat?—Yes. He says in that letter which was shown to me either by Mr. Baxter or the Harbour Trust that Mr. Taylor was asked to go below and see the wheat and my recollection is that Mr. Taylor refused. Could I see Mr. Paton's letter ?— 3041. In that letter he said he showed Mr. Taylor ?—My recollection is that Mr. Taylor would not go to see the wheat which he wanted him to see. 3042. As far as my memory is concerned, he said he had shown Mr. Taylor the wheat and Mr. Taylor saw sufficient, or as much as he wanted to ?—If that is so I unhesitatingly withdraw what I said about Mr. Paton. I think it is a letter written to the Harbour Trust but it encloses Mr. Paton's statement. I would not suggest that the man is not telling the truth if I am misquoting his letter. The first thing I want to know is if it is a proper thing to put in evidence regarding the company I am managing director of, because various statements have been made in Parliament and this is the place of sworn evidence. 3043. I think it would be advisable ?—Then the first thing I want to say quite definitely and distinctly is that the Westralian Farmers are a co-operative company absolutely and entirely free from any political organisation and I challenge anybody inside or outside of Parliament to show evidence to the contrary. The organisation was formed by many who previously had taken a hand in the Farmers' and Settlers' Association. It has been a matter of seriousness with us all when we have tried to deal with a section of the community that we are told that we are a political organisation. I may say that each of us individually has a perfect right to favour which side of politics he likes, but I definitely challenge anyone to say that the Westralian Farmers is or might be influenced or controlled by any political association. 3044. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : Could you influence a political party ?— In no way and in no sense, and we have never attempted to. As an organisation we have, when we have been in trouble connected with the country, appealed to members of the Country party in Parliament, just as a merchant in Perth who considered he was ill-treated would appeal to Mr. Pilkington or any member of the Upper House in Perth. I certainly have asked members of the Country party to see that the people they represent get better treatment, but that we can influence them or we be influenced by them in any sense I absolutely deny. The next statement I wish to make is that the company is genuinely, absolutely, and purely co-operative, and in this respect it is the only co-operative organisation of the kind in Western Australia, and I think is more truly co-operative than any organisation in Australia. When I see in the newspaper that questions have been put to witnesses and they are asked why this organisation is any more co-operative than the Mercantile Union, then I say that the Mercantile Union is purely a joint-stock company. I do not think Mr. Lehmann would contend or suggest that it is co-operative. It is asked here why they should not have had full say in the receiving of wheat. They had as much right to be admitted to the business as Dalgety & Co. Their constitution and systems of working and divisions of profit, are such that on no sense can they pretend to be a co-operative company. On the other hand our company by its constitution, articles, and memorandum of agreement and its working and practice and distribution of profits, is in every sense purely co-operative. It is based on the most advanced ideas and ideals of co-operation in the world. First of all it has followed the practice of the co-operative societies of Great Britain, which are a workers' or labour organisation. It has followed the practice of the co-operative movement of Denmark and it has had to take leaves, I regret to say, out of the books of the rural districts of Germany, and it has taken leaves out of the books of the butter factory scheme. The division of its profits first of all is limited on share capital to the maximum in any condition of seven per cent., and no resolution or agreement can possibly affect that. 3045. Paid up capital ?—The actual cash paid in by the individual. The balance of profit is divided on the patronage basis in accordance with the trade done with the company and on which the profit is earned. That is the purest sense of co-operation. Since May, 1917, the profit has been divisible amongst the shareholders