upon me more from that point of view than from any other.

3451. In order to achieve the reduction of the pest, you will have to put through the whole of the wheat in the stacks?—No. We can reduce our outside storage to such a proportion that we shall be able to handle it by mechanical means or otherwise. But let us get the great proportion of the wheat safe from all pests.

3452. That depends principally on the quantity of wheat we get from the harvest?— Yes.

3453. An ordinary harvest, such as we have been having for a few years past, would involve difficulty in dealing with the balance of the wheat outside the bulk storage? —Under present conditions. Of course, it depends greatly on how much the Government are prepared to expend. With the guarantee of 4s. to the farmer, the question is whether it is worth while to spend 1s. or 1s. 3d. per bushel in order to save the balance of the money. It would take three or four years after getting the bins up to get the weevil down to normal proportions.

3454. But here is also a small portion of the harvest that will go into the bins? — Yes, but then the other portion would be so handled as not to have losses on it.

3455. It means, then, that this is a forerunner of the bulk handling system? —I suppose it will eventually come to that. I am only advocating this as emergency storage.

3456. Would you advocate the expenditure of so large a sum of money straight away merely for temporary storage?—Yes. Unless we make a strenuous effort in that direction. I see no way of getting the pest even under some sort of control.

3457. You advocate it more now for getting the pest under control than for storage?— For storage also. The two things are interwoven.

3458. You realise that the adoption of that course will make it necessary year after year to extend? —I knew you would come at me on that question, and I have been turning it over in my mind a lot. I feel this way: if we put up five million or six million bushel storage— which is excessive; I would recommend about four millions, so as to be on the safe side—and if we then make strenuous efforts with heating machines, or in other ways, such as gristing wheat and protecting it and sterilising the trucks, and getting the wheat into the stores dry, by that means we shall be able to keep the weevil down. If in normal conditions we want to go in for bulk handling, we can go in for it; and by that means it will cure itself automatically.

3459. Seeing that we shall have millions of bags of wheat by the time normal conditions return, is it not possible that a small quantity might also be dealt with in the manner you have just mentioned, instead of by bulk storage?—Of course I may be wrong, but I am positive that if we all live long enough you will see that I am right. We shall have to come to concrete storage sooner or later, in order to combat the pest; and why not go in for that system now?

3460. The pest has got so bad that some extreme measures will have to be taken?—I am absolutely positive of that.

3461. By Mr. BROWN: But suppose we have proper shipping facilities, as in pre-war times, there would be no necessity for this?—The weevils before long will get so bad that they will attack the grain growing in the field.

3462. By Mr. HARRISON: Do you know of instances of that? —Yes; in India.

3463. Anywhere else besides India?—I do not know of any other place.

3464. Would the grain be attacked before stripping, while in the ear? — Yes; and that is what we have to fear.

3465. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: I suppose the grain is attacked while in the moist stage?—Yes.

3466. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: The seed must have been infected before it was planted?—No. These things will get right through the country. One cannot say how they come along, but they come.

3467. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: Do you think the weevil would germinate in some other plant during the season?—I cannot say where the weevil comes from. I asked the professor that question, and he said they had been at it for years and could not answer the question.

3468. By the CHAIRMAN: Then this is really the forerunner of bulk handling? —Bulk handling will be the natural corollary. If we have the bins, we shall naturally say, "Why not put the handling houses to them and make a bulk handling job of it?"

3469. If the farmer did not have bulk handling after the war, it would not pay him merely to use those storage bins when normal conditions return?—I come back to the pest again. If we have the pest, we must have the bins. I am positive that that is the only way to get the pest down to normal proportions, at any rate for a number of years.

3470. But under normal conditions the wheat is trucked to the port and shipped away almost at once. Take the 1913 harvest?—If it is on every farm, the weevil will be right through that wheat.

3471. Take the 1913 harvest, which was a fair one. Hardly any of that wheat was stacked at Fremantle? — No. It was got away very quickly. About 800 or 900 trucks per day were being shipped at that time.

3472. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: Do not you think that, as time goes on, the quantity of wheat grown in Western Australia will greatly increase?—Going only by what Mr. Sutton says, who has made a study of the matter, there is no reason why we should not go up to 18 millions or 20 million bushels before many years.

3473. By the CHAIRMAN: We know, as regards bulk handling, that it has never yet been thoroughly proved that we will be able to ship much more wheat from this port in bulk?—The original committee in 1913 wrote to practically all the principal shipping companies in the world, and received very satisfactory replies from every one of them. Sir Thomas Price, who made the big report for South Africa, tackled the same question; and he said that the ships would be there. We have an extra chance now, because all the ships are being standardised, and in future we shall not have so many nondescript ships.

3474. South Africa is half the distance?—I do not think wheat is affected much by distance. I asked Dr. Duval if he thought there would be any trouble, and he did not think so.

3475. Can you tell me what action the Board of Trade have taken as to regulations in regard to carrying bulk wheat from Australia to Europe? —I only know what Lloyd's do. I did not know they had made any regulations specially for Australia. They insist on certain precautions of course.

3476. I see when you started the work first Mr. Stevens said the first thing you had to prove would be that grain carried in bulk could be safely carried without deterioration, according to the marine underwriters, so that something must have been settled?— Lloyd's people have a set of rules. They make you put in certain shifting boards and bulk heads, and a certain percentage goes in bags on top. There are four or five layers. I think about eight per cent. of the cargo.

3477. By Mr. HARRISON: To prevent the wheat from shifting?—Yes.

3478. By Mr. BROWN: Is that essential in all bulk handling schemes? —Lloyd's people insist on it. Quite recently they have been sending stuff across the Atlantic without shifting boards.

3479. By the CHAIRMAN: I notice a letter here from J. Shaw, Traffic Manager of the Hull and Barnsley Railway Company, writing to Mr. E. Bechervaise, Geelong, referring to this matter. I will read you an extract and ask your opinion on it. He says— Although our experience has been that all cargoes of grain per vessels arriving here from the west coast of America have been in bags, I notice from the official Board of Trade "Memorandum relating to Grain Cargoes" that it is permissible for one-third of the cargo to be in bulk. This is dated the 29th June, 1916?—A lot of those vessels go round by Cape Horn, a pretty trying voyage.

3480. He goes on to say — The whole question is one for experts to decide, but it has been suggested to me that in