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Wheat (1) - Part 2
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the country this year . I am comparing the costs in the depots this year ,and not in the country. 4058. You have a large quantity of wheat in the country? — No , very little. 4059. If the wheat was not stacked previously it had to be stacked , and their responsibility had to be paid for ? — Yes. 4060. As there is less work done this year it involves a smaller cost ? — Smaller than past year , yes. 4061. And you have to take that into consideration in making a comparison ? — That comparison is not to be taken as a comparison between agents , but between the Scheme only. That is to say , the Scheme this year is handling the wheat in a different manner to previous years. The comparison made is one between this year and past year. 4062. It is stated that the Westralian Farmers are handling wheat this year considerably cheaper than it has ever been done before , and much cheaper than the agents in the Eastern Sates are handling it ? — Quite so. 4063. If the agents , including the Westralian Farmers , previously took increased responsibility , which is now being taken by the Scheme , it must make a difference in the price ? — Yes. 4064. And you have to take that into consideration for the purpose of ascertaining the difference between what is paid to the Westralian Farmers to -day and what was paid for the harvest of the two previous years ? — Yes. 4065. We wanted to know what it would cost the Scheme , that is to say , the farmers as a whole , and we also wanted to know what the difference was so fas as the agents were concerned ? — It is hard to work it out exactly. The agents for the 1916-17 harvest had to caretake for 12 months at ⅛d. 4066. By Hon J.F. ALLEN: You are paying the Westralian Farmers one halfpenny for the same services?— That is on the old stacks. We are paying one halfpenny for only six months. The stacks are getting very tender now , and are 18 months old. For the provision of stacking grounds one-twentieth of a penny was paid. These rates are based on a penny a bushel. For providing dunnage one-twentieth of a penny , and for providing curtains one-tenth of a penny was paid. For providing iron , wire , and timber , one-tenth of a penny was paid. 4067. By the CHAIRMAN : That is the roof ? — Yes. For , shipping of wheat they were paid one-sixth of a penny , and for bagging , say , one-eight of a penny . In view of the large number of agents doing the work ,as against only one agent , the overhead charges pro rata came out much heavier. That is to say , in the case of an agent handling only 400,000 bags as against one handling two million bags , the overhead charges for the former are much heavier that they would be in the case of the latter. The difference on the overhead charges is assessed at one farthing. 4068. That is a shade over three farthings ? — It is nearly one penny. 4069. That will really bring the Westralian Farmers' price this time up to a fraction over 2½d? — Yes . Then there are the chargers paid to the sub-agents . Last year the amount paid to the sub-agent is wet out in the agreement as one halfpenny and one penny. 4070. Last year there were more agents? — Yes. 4071. That is another halfpenny per bushel . Was the price quoted this year with competition 2½d? — I cannot say from memory. Last year the remuneration of 3½d. was on the wheat being shipped. If the wheat was delivered to a mill the remuneration was only 3d. A certain proportion of the wheat handled by the agents was delivered to mills ,a dn on that proportion they got the lower commission. 4072. When the one agent is taken into consideration , there is really very little difference between the work this year and the work last year ? — Boiling it down , last year the Westralian Farmers were , I consider , ⅜d. better off than they are this year. As regards cheapness , let me point out that when we were negotiating with Mr.Mitchell for the 1916-17 crop as representative of Louis Dreyfus & Co., I placed before the members of the board a proposal to do the work at cost price plus a profit of , I think , ¼d. per bushel. 4073. That is similar to what the Westralian Farmers offered to do last time ? — They copied the offer made by Dreyfus in the previous year . 4074. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : Would that ¼d. have had to pay your administrative charges , or would those charges be debited against the Scheme ? — That was a clear profit of ¼d over all expenses. The offer was placed before Mr. Sutton and Mr.Field , I think , at a meeting in Ockerby's office ; and Mr. Sutton and Mr.Field submitted it to Mr.Mitchell , who , they informed us would not hear of it at all. Then we fixed up the other agreement. In fact , I at one time intimated to Mr.Sutton that Dreyfus & Co. were willing , if he thought it was required , to do the whole work for nothing provided the Government paid the costs. The objection I understand to having the work done at a cost price plus a profit was that a number of firms ran side lines with wheat , and that the Government considered it would be pretty hard from a book-keeping point of view to seperate the various costs as between the wheat business and the side lines. 4075. Were Dreyfus & Co. purely wheat people ? — Yes . They did not even handle corn sacks. Incidentally , Darling's were the same as Dreyfus & Co. 4076. By Mr. BROWN : How long have Dreyfus & Co been doing business in Australia ? — Seven or eight years. 4077. when did they open in Fremantle ? — The year before the drought , 1913 . I was not here at that time. 4078. By the CHAIRMAN : I see the Westralian Farmers offered to act as agents for ⅜d per bushel ? — For a net profit of ⅜d. I observe that Mr.Murray in his evidence said that the ⅜d per bushel net profit did not mean what it said. He said he was going to pay his overhead expenses out of the ⅜d. At the end of the 1916-17 crop we took over from the agents on the 31st December , after the agents allowed us certain rebates. 4079. What are you now paying for re-bagging old stacks ? — We are getting most of the old stacks moved on contract. 4080. The re-bagging is on contract ? — The whole of the work , the removal of the wheat and any re-bagging that is necessary. 4081. Is that work given to the Westralian Farmers ? — It is through them ; not necessarily to them. They get 10 per cent for supervising the work. 4082. Does not the cost vary in different places ? — It varies on account of the condition of the stacks. Some of the stacks are in better condition than others. 4083. By Mr. HARRISON : Would the size of the stack make any difference ? — Yes. Big stacks are a better proposition from the lumpers' point of view than small stacks. 4084. And then the price varies accordingly ? — The price fluctuates. 4085. By the CHAIRMAN : I suppose you know we had some evidence here regarding Dembleyung ? — I do not know whether I have seen that evidence . I read the report of it in the newspaper. 4086. You will remember you had a little difficulty there with the stacking , dealing with the old stack ? — Yes. 4087. I note that for shifting that stack you paid the Westralian Farmers , Ltd., 12s 6d., plus 10 per cent ? — Yes. 4088. And the work was actually done for 10s. 6d.; — Yes. 4089. Does the work warrant the payments of that additional amount on handling the wheat ? Could not a stack like that have been handled directly through the contractor? — Between the Scheme and the contractor . yes. 4090. Would not that have been to the benefit of the Scheme ? — As soon as I found out that a number of these co-operative companies were simply re-letting the work and getting a profit , I stopped that. I think it was in regard to the Dumbleyung proposition that I wrote the Westralian Farmers saying , that while it was the policy of the Government to assist the co-operative companies as far as possible , it was not our policy to assist the co-operative companies to become farmers of labour. For the 10 per cent extra a certain amount of supervision was given to the work. 4091. But you were paying 2s. additional ? — Yes. The local co-operative company was getting 2s. and
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