price, and the flour was taken back by the Scheme at a fixed price. In view of the wheat getting weevily, and in view of the impossibility of getting the mills under the arrangement, the manager entered into an agreement on the lines which were eventually adopted, and apart from the weevily wheat we had to send other stacks into the mills. Those in proximity to country mills were sent to country mills. Take a mill like York, for instance. It would not pay us to send weevilly wheat from Fremantle to York to be gristed. From Albany it has naturally to go to Fremantle, but the bulk of wheat comes to York from Mt. Kokeby and other near by sidings, and we have had to load up stacks on account of the bad condition of them. The walls have fallen down, and they have had to be loaded up, and we have had to send good wheat to the mills to be gristed with the weevily wheat to enable the mills to turn out a first class flour. I think the flour they are turning out for the Imperial Government is too good from a Scheme point of view.

4274. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN : There is the difficulty of obtaining silks ?—The mills have not raised that objection yet, and I think they would have raised the point if it were so. In loading for the mills we have to consider the awkward railway lines. Take the main goldfields line, for instance. We can load the old wheat and the new at the same time, but when we get on to lines like the Wongan Hills-Mullewa, we do not want to be pulling old wheat off that line when we are pulling new wheat. Then there is the running capacity of the line, which is limited. You have to pull the old wheat off when the new wheat has been finished with. All these points have to be considered, and if you are trying to pull too much off a line something is bound to suffer. You will notice in the agreement with the mills they give us free storage for the wheat sufficient for one month's gristing, and free storage for the products of the month's gristing. That was an item we got put in after they made their arrangement. We also forced them on one or two occasions after we had made the preliminary arrangements to do certain things, and the price at which we took over the local contracts were made was altered to the price current on 3rd November.

4275. At Katanning mill site there are a good many bins about a quarter full of wheat. Is there any reason why they should not be full ?—That would not make any difference if they were full. Piesse's wheat supplies are confined to Gnowangerup and Albany. Gnowangerup wheat is being sent on as fast as it is loaded up, which is probably about 800 bags a day, and the Albany wheat is weevily, therefore we do not wish to disturb it before we have to. There is no need to pull down the stacks at Albany and send the wheat to the mill before it is necessary, because the weevil works more rapidly after they have been disturbed.

4276. Even in the bins ?—Yes; but if they could get right down to the bottom of the bins they would be more liable to be asphyxiated than when they are at the top.

4277. By the CHAIRMAN : Will they work at all at the bottom ?—I cannot say; I have had no experience. As far as my knowledge goes I have not heard that they do.

4278. We were told yesterday they would only work a few feet down ?—I would not like to say how far they do work in silos—how far down, I do not know.

4279. Then silos are not a cure for weevils ?—I would not say that. Mr. McGibbon also mentioned the fact that the mills should be compulsorily acquired by the Government. Apart from nay point of view, the Scheme has no authority to acquire any mills compulsorily.

4280. They wanted the Act amended in that direction ?—Yes, but no steps could be taken without amending the Act. You Could not make any arrangement with a wheat agent. For instance, you could not "collar" Ockerby's mill and then come to Parliament afterwards and get authority. You could not take over any mills until Parliament had approved first, or Ockerby might get an injunction and probably claim damages, and Parliament would not make it retrospective.

4281. When they went to the Attorney General they asked for an amendment of the Act to provide for that ?—Mr. McGibbon said that he would have acquired the mills to start with compulsorily.

4282. By Mr. HARRISON : Did you go into the question of the acquisition of the mills ?—From my point of view I would not dream of such a possibility.

4283. By the CHAIRMAN : We have learned that it does not require much experience to run a mill ?—I have not had any experience of running a mill, but I have come into contact with millers a great deal recently, and I have learned a lot about milling. I should be very much surprised if there were half a dozen millers in Western Australia who knew all there was to know about milling. I should say that the average man could live a lifetime and come along again and find that he still had a lot to learn about milling. I have been in the wheat business for a long time, but I find every day that I have still something to learn. Only past experience can teach what course it is best to adopt when unusual circumstances arise. There was another point in the millers' agreement, and it was in regard to the arrangement about taking over stocks. Mr. McGibbon likened that to what might have been done by an office boy. I think Mr. Rae is a fairly competent man. The arrangement is that we are paying the mills for those stocks the actual price realised for the stocks, that is to say, when we took over the mills on the 3rd November they had certain stocks of flour on hand. Since that date those stocks have been disposed of. The Scheme are going to pay the millers for those stocks the average price realised. Suppose the millers sell flour at a price that netted the Scheme £11, the Scheme will pay the millers £11 for that flour. Mr. McGibbon said that those arrangements could only have been entered into by a novice, and he suggested a percentage on cost. I would not like to have the job of finding out what it cost these mills. I would like to know the milling costs, because when we make a fresh agreement it would be very useful knowledge. I think Mr. McGibbon's suggestion is that of a novice. Mr. McGibbon also stated that the mills were paid at 2½ per cent. del credere commission on the unmilled portion of the millers' quota of the Imperial order. He said in his evidence — " I have put in the words ' del credere ' though the section reads 2½ per cent ." Goodness knows why he did not put in anything if he is going to alter the meaning. The mills are certainly getting 2½ per cent. commission on their quota of the Imperial order, but surely only Mr. McGibbon would try to read into it that it was a del credere commission. Mr. McGibbon also brought this up before Mr. Robinson, and he was told that he had no right to read the words " del credere " in there. Evidently he does not realise what a del credere commission is. As an auditor he ought to know. Del credere is Italian. It was originally a commission paid to a broker who made a sale and guaranteed the account. Generally the words del credere in Australia mean that a man is guaranteeing an account. Mr. McGibbon also complained about the millers' bond being too low. The bond is only a nominal bond. Personally, I have not much time for bonds at all. I do not believe in tying a man down by a bond. The miller, under Clause 20, acts as bailee of the Minister over all the products of the mill until those products are delivered and accounted for. If a miller sells any of his products and does not account to the Scheme of course he is criminally liable. If a miller wants to be a rogue and disposes of his products he can do so, and we cannot stop him. If a miller wants to rob us he can do so without our knowing anything about it. We have to assume that we are not dealing with rogues and vagabonds. If we do not think that a miller is a fit and proper person no bond is big enough to cover liability.

4284. Is there any risk from having the product destroyed by negligence ?—very little. We had a case at the Wagin mill, I think it was. There was a little offal which had been stacked in a rather exposed position. We got on to it early and made them recondition it. The loss was practically nothing but it might have been more serious if the inspector had not been there at the right time. It is only in such instances that a bond would be of any avail, but we would still have to prove our damage. The next item I have here relates to the question of inferior wheat and sales by Dalgety &Co. I notice that one or two witnesses gave evidence in connection with the sub-