Wheat (1) - Part 3

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TUESDAY, 30th JULY, 1918. (At Perth.) Present: Hon. W. C. Angwin, M.L.A. (Chairman). Hon. J. F. Allen, M.L.C., Hon. R. G. Ardagh, M.L.C., S. M. Brown, Esq., M.L.A., T. H. Harrison, Esq., M.L.A.

FREDERICK CHARLES KEYS, further examined:

4508. WITNESS: I have the statement of the cost which I promised to bring along, but I would ask you to treat it as confidential. 4509. By the CHAIRMAN: Is there an objection to the details being published?— In view of the negotiations which are going between the Scheme and the agents, it would not be fair. 4510. It might be of advantage to the Scheme?— Possibly, but the agent might say that if the Scheme can do it for this amount they cannot do it as cheaply, and they will not be able to put in a quotation. 4511. By Mr. BROWN: Is this based on the same conditions as you are asking the others to tender on?— That is really what we estimated would cost us to issue certificates. 4512. By the CHAIRMAN: Does this include handling the wheat as well?— That is only our cost in the office for issuing certificates. The amount we pay sub-agents would be the same as whether we did it or whether it was done through some company. This is naturally cheaper than any outside company can do it for, because we have a certain staff and there would not be any necessity to increase it. We also have inspectors and it would only mean the employment of a couple of additional inspectors to thoroughly check the country sub-agents and see they were doing their work in a proper manner. 4513. This would mean the weighing, sampling, and issuing of certificates?—Issuing certificates only. We do the other work at the present time. We do the checking at the depôt now. 4514. If you acquired the wheat yourselves, you would have to do the work at the sidings?—The sub-agents would do that, and the rate of commission would be the same as they would receive from anyone else. 4515. Would the penny you are paying now include the issuing of certificates?— No. The Westralian Farmers get five-eighths—one farthing plus one farthing plus one-eighth; that represents what we pay the Westralian Farmers, except that they have to do a certain amount of checking at depôts. We already do that, so that we would not have to do it twice. 4516. All that you would have to add to the cost of this would be 1⅛d. per bushel?—Whatever commission the country sub-agent earns. 4517. He is paid 1d. for handling?—Yes. 4518. And he is paid extra for weighing and sampling?— That is included in his penny. 4519. Does not the country sub-agent issue certificates as well?—The Westralian Farmers issue certificates from head office. The country agent, first of all, gives a cart note which is exchanged for an interim receipt, and that receipt is sent by the farmer to the Westralian Farmers, Ltd., and it is there exchanged for a certificate. The country sub-agent makes up returns showing the interim receipts he has issued, and that is checked in Perth. 4520. The only thing you would have to add to this is 1d. per bushel, and the responsibility of looking after the stacks for two months?—That is included in the 1d. per bushel. 4521. I thought you were paying extra for that?—We are paying extra for roofing. 4522. By Mr. HARRISON: What about caretaking?—The agent is responsible for his wheat while it is there. 4523. Suppose a certain date is fixed, what about caretaking after that date?—No arrangement is made like that. 4524. Not with a sub-agent?—There is no arrangement between us and the Westralian Farmers. 4525. You have had certain dates in the past?—Yes, in connection with past contracts. 4526. The sub-agent does not get anything for attention after those dates have expired?—This year, instead of keeping wheat at country sidings, we have taken it to the depôts and we look after it there ourselves. 4527. There would be an extra amount, provided you stored some of the wheat at certain country centres?—In that case, yes. 4528. By the CHAIRMAN: Have you made comparisons to show what you are paying for that work now?—Yes, it is worked out on the basis of a 10-million bushel acquirement by the Scheme, and at the present time we are paying five-eighths of a penny, and if we handle 10 million bushels that five-eighths comes to £25,000. 4529. That is really approximately what you stated on Friday?—That is the basis. 4530. Those figures appeared in the Press on Saturday?—I did not peruse the evidence. 4531. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: In question 4185 you were asked— But are you not losing thousands upon thousands of pounds by merely allowing the wheat to get wet and take weevil?—I am not aware of it. We had a small amount of loss spread over the whole on account of the damaged wheat. But recently we had one stack of 1916-17 wheat shifted from Trayning; and I think the loss on that stack alone was equal to the total loss this season. We have nothing to equal that this year. Whose stack was that at Trayning?— The Westralian Farmers, Ltd. The next matter I have to bring under your notice is the assignment of certificates. Mr. McGibbon mentioned the matter in his evidence but he did not state the position correctly. Mr. McGibbon stated, "If I owe you £50 and bring you my certificates as security, as soon as you take these certificates you have to cease charging interest on the value of same. That is absurd." That is not the position at all. The position is this: if a farmer wishes to assign his certificate and he is legally liable for interest on his debt, we allow up to eight per cent. interest to be charged against him, but if the farmer is assigning certificates against the debt on which he is not compelled by law to pay interest, we do not allow him to be charged any interest on the assignment. In other words, we will not allow the assignment of certificates to be used as a means of charging interest which the farmer is not otherwise compelled to pay. The next point I touch upon is that of unrestricted trading in certificates. 4532. By the CHAIRMAN: Permission has been given to trade in certificates?— Not yet. 4533. I thought the Government agreed?— The Government do not raise any objection. They take up the attitude that while they are not opposed to it they want Parliament to accept the responsibility for it. Personally I think it would be against the inter