ALFRED FRANCIS PEARSE, recalled and further examined:

5435. By the CHAIRMAN: I notice from this list that the third class rail is not £10, as you stated?—I did not quite intend to infer that it was. It was £8, and it has since been reduced to £7 10s.

5436. And they are charging £17 10s. for the first grade?—Yes.

5437. We are not quite clear in regard to the silos. You told us that to control the weevil the wheat in the silos should be occasionally removed?—Yes.

5438. And your idea was to build bins of 40,000 bushel capacity?—Yes.

5439. In getting out your estimates, did you provide for an extra bin?—No.

5440. How, then, were you going to shift the wheat?—By turning it in from the bottom to the top of the bin. We were providing three openings from the bottom.

5441. How could you keep the weevil in check in such conditions?—It has been found that the weevil is kept in check by continual moving of the wheat.

5442. The weevil put into the bin would still be there?— With the exception of those crushed and injured by the turning of the wheat.

5443. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Where has it been found that the weevil is thus kept in check?—In America. They there deal with it by turning over the wheat. They go in for separate bins there, the reason being that they have a multiplicity of grades of wheat and consequently have to provide an enormous number of bins. In Australia our grades are confined to half a dozen, and the whole of these are very rarely grown in any bulk at one place. Consequently we could have big bins.

5444. Your remark applies to Canada as well as to the United States?—Yes.

5445. By the CHAIRMAN: In Canada they build bins of 1,350-bushel capacity?—Yes, small bins, because of the numerous grades of wheat.

5446. Did your board take into consideration the different qualities of wheat together with the atmospheric conditions of the several districts in which the wheat is grown?—Mr. Sutton advised us entirely on the different grades of wheat. I do not know whether he went into the question of atmospheric conditions.

5447. You never took into consideration the possibility of wheat of excessive moisture being put into the large silos and so tending to damage the remainder of the grain in the silos?—No, we would not think of putting heavily moistured wheat on top of dry wheat, but if we did, it could easily be dried by turning it over.

5448. At Perth mill the other day we saw several samples of 1915-16 wheat in bottles. Some of it had gone black?— If damp it will go bad if it is not turned over. The practice in America is to keep on turning it over.

5449. Have you any evidence to show that the taking out of wheat from the bottom of the silo and putting it in again at the top has been successful in keeping the weevil clear?—No. That is what was supposed to be done.

5450. On whose advice was this proposed?—On the advice of Mr. Carter, of Metcalf & Co.

5451. He says the practice has been carried on successfully in America?—Yes.

5452. Would that not be obviated if the silos were built in bins?—I am afraid the cost would mount up to too great an extent.

5453. You recommend the expenditure of this money for the purpose of clearing out the weevil?—Yes.

5454. That is a purer method of clearing the weevil than putting the wheat into clean bins?—If you put weevily wheat into a bin and treat it with carbon bi-sulphide the weevils will be killed. The turning over of the wheat once in six weeks also aerates it, and will gradually eliminate the insect.

5455. Would these 40,000 bushel capacity silos be suitable for bulk handling?—Yes. When the bulk handling comes in there will be a number of bins in the bulk handling house. There would thus always be a spare bin. These would be of smaller capacity than 40,000 bushels and provide for the additional grades of wheat which might be grown.

5456. The large ones that will be built will be only partly used?—No. Mr. Sutton claims that 80 per cent. of the wheat grown in any particular district would be of one grade. That is why we provide for the big bins.

5457. Have you seen the wooden silo at the Perth mill?—I saw the smaller silo, but have not seen the new one.

5458.The small silo was so successful that another was erected in jarrah?—Yes, on the crib system.

5459. If that silo is suitable, would others of the kind not be suitable for the state?—No, because they will not keep weevil out.

5460. If carbon bi-sulphide can be applied in concrete silos. should it not be applied in the case of wooden silos?—No. The weevil needs very little air to live in. It gets into the interstices and crevices of the wood, and the fumes do not seem to have any upon it. All authorities strongly advocate smooth and tight surfaces inside the storage bins.

5461. Under the bulk handling scheme it would not make very much difference whether the silos were built in wood or concrete, because the wheat is not kept very long?— There is always a certain amount of wheat carried over from one year to the other.

5462. Is it not kept over at the mill?—When bulk handling comes in a certain amount of wheat will have to be stored in bulk, and this will be the easiest way of holding it.

5463. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: Is there any other place in the world outside Western Australia where the conditions are as you state they are here, and where storage bins of large capacity can be utilised instead of a large number of small bins such as are found in the United States and Canada?—No, the conditions here in Australia are different to any other place. Our conditions are ideal.

5464. There is no precedent in any other part of the world which can be followed here in that respect?—No, on account of the grades.

5465. No expert knowledge which would be required in the inauguration of a system of bulk storage would have any precedent so far as we are concerned in that respect?—Only that it would come into the general handling of wheat.

5466. On whose advice was the 40,000 bushel type of bin adopted?— Partly at Mr. Carter's suggestion and partly at my own, in conjunction with that of Mr. Deane Hammond and Mr. Sutton.

5467. The responsibility for the adoption of that type of bin did not rest with Metcalf & Co., then?—They really suggested it through Mr. Carter when he was here.

5468. On account of your statement to him of what the conditions in this State were?—Yes. The Commonwealth Acts set down 50,000 bushel bins as the type.

5469. Do you mean under the regulations formed under that Act?—I believe the price fixed was 1s. 2d. per bushel. The authorities allowed Victoria to put in one or two bins of 25,000-bushel capacity.

5470. Who fixed that price?—The Commonwealth.

5471. On what estimate?—They called together various engineers and found what it would cost to do these things, and they then fixed the cost at 1s. 2d. per bushel.

5472. They first fixed the 50,000 bushel type of bin?—Yes.

5473. And they estimated that this type of bin would cost 1s. 2d. per bushel to construct?—Yes.

5474. And that has been the basis of the estimates submitted through the Commonwealth?—Yes. Mr. Mackay, the engineer, is administering the Act for the Commonwealth Government, and he sticks to that figure. It was really fixed by the commission which was sitting at the time.

5475. And in a discussion upon suggested legislation with regard to bulk handling here, the estimates that were given would be based on that information?—In this State I think it was based on 1s. 3d. Mr. Carter thought it would be 1s. 4d. but I cut it down to 1s. 3d.

5476. Was the estimate formed on the figures given by Metcalf & Co., or on the original bulk handling scheme as considered by Parliament?—I do not know what was placed before Parliament.

5477. By the CHAIRMAN: An estimate of 1s. 2d.?—That is the Federal price.

5478. By Mr. BROWN: On what date was that fixed?—Last year, just before the Bill was dealt with.

5479. Before the New South Wales contract was entered into?—Yes.

5480. By the CHAIRMAN: You have said there is no intention to stack wheat at Geraldton this year?—That was the idea.

5481. What is intended to be done with the shed there which is nearly 1,000 feet long?—Portion of that shed will be used. It is not intended to put up a new shed.

5482. The idea is to fill that shed?—Yes.

(The witness retired.)