he said that he could have railed it and got 4s. or 4s. 6d. a bushel for it. My contention is that the Westralian Farmers' inspector gave the soundest advice and that advice was borne out by one farmer, who came for a load, refusing to take any of it. On the top of that, Inspector Sales made his complaint to the contractor, Mr. Barrett, which placed him in the position of being between the devil and the deep blue sea. My contention is that it is against the best spirit of co-operation.

5592. Who was Mr.Barrett working for?—For the co-operative company. I was giving it my personal supervision, but Mr. Barrett was getting the full return for trucking the stuff away. We retained nothing for supervision, but the men claim they did not make wages out of it.

5593. I suppose the wheat lying there was owned by members of the co-operative society?—It was the 1916-17 stack, and I think the greatest portion of it has been sold. Only a portion belonged to the farmers. The harvest of 1916-17 was sold and a portion is still unsold. The farmers of the district are interested in the unsold portion.

5594. By the CHAIRMAN: What is the size of the stack?—About 15,000 or 17,000 bags. There are 19,000 nags in the present stack.

5595. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: At Minnievale?—Yes, it is reeking with weevil. The end has fallen out and there is terrible destruction of the bags by weevil.

5596. Who is in charge of the stack now?—The Westralian Farmers have the three stacks at Minnievale, at Dowerin, and Binjeberring. This one has been removed; as the farmers' representative I am continually to and fro.

5597. By Mr. BROWN: Has Mr. Keys given the new contractor authority to go on with the shifting?—Yes, but I do not think it is finalised yet. It is hung up in consequence of the intervention of these men. I know that when Mr. McGregor rang up the Wheat Scheme they said they had definitely accepted the tender from Clark.

5598. Was he previously an employee of Dreyfus & Co?—Yes, he was shifting wheat for Dreyfus & Co. He assisted to build the present stack.

5599. By the CHAIRMAN: How long did it take to remove the stack of 17,000 bags approximately within a few days?—I would not like to say exactly.

5600. Approximately?—I should say it took Barrett and three men about six weeks. He had four men the greater part of the period.

5601. I suppose you are aware that the Westralian Farmers get ten per cent. commission on the cost of shifting , in addition to the 1½d. a bag?—I am not aware.

5602. The contract taken in several places was 12s. 6d. per hundred, plus 10 per cent. commission?—I was not aware of it. The contract was let to the Westralian Farmers.

5603. The Westralian Farmers get 10 per cent., in addition to what the contractors let it for. We had some complaint before as to Dumbleyung, where a stack was let for 12s. 6d. per hundred, plus 10 per cent. The co-operative society let it to the lumpers for 10s. 6d.?—Yes.

5604. By Mr. HARRISON: Were there special conditions as to the loading of the 17,000 bags that made them get such a poor average, running out at less than 500 bags a day?—I might be wide of the mark; I was not there continuously; only once or twice a week.

5605. Can you give any idea of the percentage of re-bagging?—It was considerable on account of the wet patch and the bad state of the bags. I suppose he must have re-bagged five per cent. of it.

5606. Do you consider five per cent. a bad average for a stack lying there for a year?—It may have been more. Not being directly engaged in handling it I may be wide of the mark as to the quantity.

5607. Did there appear to be much damage by mice?—There was a considerable quantity of wheat lying about; and re-bagging.

(The witness retired )

SAMUEL DVORETSKY, Farmer, East Brookton, sworn and examined:

5608. By the CHAIRMAN: You desire to put some evidence before the Commission?—Yes. In April last the farmers of my district arranged to build a silo in which to keep the 1917-18 wheat. For that purpose we formed ourselves into a co-operative society. We estimated the cost of the silo at £1.500. Somebody suggested it was of no use building until we had the plans approved by the Government, so with a couple of others I came to town and saw Mr. Mitchell, the then Minister, who sent us to Mr. Sibbald. We had a long conversation with Mr. Sibbald, who suggested a modification of our plans, in consequence of which we asked him to send us plans and specifications in accordance with his own ideas. This he promised to do within two or three days. We returned to Brookton and arranged for a second public meeting. In the meantime Mr. Sibbald went to Melbourne. He sent us the plan of the silo, but we found it very expensive and not at all a reasonable plan. We then drew our own plans and got a contractor to submit a price for a wooden structure—I think the timber was to be 5in. x 2in.—lined inside with tongue-grooved one inch jarrah strengthened by iron bars, the whole to be built in sections of 15ft. x 15ft. We wanted a silo that would hold 30,000 bags, the export produce of the district. We prepared for an elevator in the middle of the silo, a shaft in the bottom, so that at any time it could be adapted to bulk handling. Also we arranged for an elevator engine to cost £180, so that when the farmer came along he would just put his wheat in a hopper on wheels and the elevator would carry it in through each bin through the hopper. Also it was arranged to leave one bin so that in the event of the wheat getting damp it might be turned over and thus kept in perfect order for 10 years or more, the wheat being shifted from one bin to the other. That took us nearly up to harvest. At the time of the Farmers' Conference we interviewed Mr. Baxter, who said, "Don't bother, just take your plans to Mr. Pearse and he will do everything you want." With another delegate I went to Mr. Pearse who said the plans were practicable and asked us to leave them with him that he might look further into them. He promised us his approval for next day. We came next day, when Mr. Pearse told us he had instructions from the Minister not to do anything until we had seen him again. Thereupon we returned to the Minister, and he said that the right person to go to was Mr. Thompson. We went to Mr. Thompson, but he could not say anything. He looked at the plans and told us nothing. We went back to Mr. Baxter, and he promised us that we should have a new plan approved within three days. I have here a telegram which I received from Mr. Sibbald in reference to the plans, and I have here also two letters from Mr. Sibbald (three documents produced). Other correspondence on the subject I have not been able to bring with me. Mr. Braidwood submitted a tender of £1,200 for the erection of the silo to accommodate 30,000 bags. The structure was to be of timber. The iron for the roof was to be supplied by the Westralian Farmers, who said we could have it at cost price and pay at our own convenience. Mr. Braidwood's tender was for the timber and the asphalt for the floor. We planned to keep the silo 2ft. 6in. off the ground. This space was to be filled with gravel topped by 6in. of asphalt.

5609. You had no hoppers in the bottom?—Yes, we provided for a hopper right through the building, which was 160ft. long. Each bin had a trap door discharging on to the hopper. The walls were to be 12ft. high.

5610. You have not the plans with you?—No, one copy is with the contractor and the other is with the Government department. Mr. Pearse said that our plans were fairly good but required modification. We wanted the approval of the Government before going on with it. At the same time we wanted certain privileges or concessions. We were not going to charge for any storage, but we wanted the natural increase in the wheat to weigh when they wanted delivery. Also we did not want the price of bags to be deducted from the first payments. We also arranged for the bagging of the wheat by means of a chute.