Although we were preparing for bulk handling we arranged that if they wanted to send away any bags it would not be any trouble. The settlers in my district wanted me to give evidence because they are very sore about the manner in which the wheat has been treated. There is a little stack in the district which was finished about a month ago. The last of the stack is in such a condition that it is impossible for any farmer to see it without commenting upon it. There is a heap of wheat about 4 feet in height rotten and smelly.

5611. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: How long has it been stacked there?—For a little over 12 months. One morning I said to the man who was loading it, "Why do you not get on with your work?" He replied that he had no bags. I then rang up Mr. MacGregor, who told me that the Scheme had advised despatch and he thought they had been sent out long ago. He then said he thought the best thing to do was to pick up some bags locally. I then let the man who was loading the wheat have 500 bags to go on with. There are many bags of wheat being wasted and no one seems to have a say in the matter. We cannot help ourselves. I have made out the difference there would have been if the stacks had been put into a silo. Of the 1916-17 wheat there were 16,384 bags. Of these, 14,752 bags went through the mill. There were 500 bags that were thrown away as being of no value, and at the Government guarantee of 4s. this represented a loss of £300. One hundred bags were sold locally at 3s. a bag, which is equivalent to a loss of £45. The cost of re-bagging was £120, or 15 per cent. One thousand bags were sent to Dalgety & Co. in Perth for sale, and I consider there was a loss of £150 on these. The cost of bags originally used for the 16,000 bags was £614. On this little stack alone if we had had a silo it would have saved £1,229. Half of the stack went away in December, and if we could have saved this £1,220 on half of the stack, we could have saved double that on the whole. It is very hard on the farmers who have been working for many years to see so much money wasted through no fault of their own. We were not given a chance to build the silo, although we were prepared to put up our own money. All we wanted was the permission of the Government. Mr. Thompson was in sympathy with us but he could not open his mouth.

5612. By the CHAIRMAN: You would have been obliged to buy bags in any case?—It would be impossible to send the wheat away in bags that had been in the stack for 16 months. If we bought new bags we could of course send the wheat away anywhere. If new bags are handled carefully, simply as a means for conveying the wheat to the silo, they would last many years. When bags are thrown about at the elevator and the stack, and are out in all weathers, they will not last. I have bags that have been in use for six years, for my seed wheat, and they are as good as ever. One set of bags would do us for carting to the station. If we had the bulk handling system we would not use bags at all, but would fix up our wagons for bulk handling purposes and cart the wheat in them. It is not a difficult matter to arrange a small elevator to lift the wheat into the wagon, from which it can be readily moved into the silo.

5613. Under present conditions you would have to buy bags, because the wheat would have to be bagged before you sent it away?—There would be a saving in money, which would not have to be laid out on bags. This £614 could have been saved and put into the silo. The whole silo would have cost £1,500, and possibly an extra £500 if we had wanted a weighbridge.

5614. Before the Scheme could send away that wheat someone would have to supply bags?—It would not have to be sent away if we had a silo. It would keep there for a number of years. The only expense in maintaining the silo would be in the case of fumigation for weevil, or turning over the grain for dampness. In Poland wheat is kept for 100 years in the same way. We have bins there built of logs, and the Government keep in every township a 12 months' supply of wheat. If any of this wheat is loaned to the farmer it has to be replaced at the end of the harvest.

5615. The £614 would have to be laid out in bags before the wheat could be exported?—Yes. We had to pay that sum in 1917, and all that money is lying idle.

5616. In all probability the Scheme would not advance you so much unless the wheat was in bags?—We asked the Scheme to allow us to keep the last shilling for the bags. The same money will do us. We do not want anything extra from the Government. We only want to save ourselves from laying out money which it is unnecessary to lay out. Wheat which has been lying in the stack for 12 months or more will have to be re-bagged before it can be sent away to market. That especially applies to the 1915-16 harvest. It will be impossible to rely on any of those bags when put into the ship's hold.

5617. We saw bags at Geraldton that were quite sound in the stack?—There will at all events be a considerable saving. If we save half that amount we should have enough money to build a silo.

5618. I cannot understand your price of £1,200 for a silo to hold the 30,000 bags?—The iron for the roof would cost another £300, but Mr. Taylor told us that he would let us have the iron for the purpose of covering in the tops of the bins.

5619. By Mr. HARRISON: How many bins did you provide for to hold the 30,000 bags?—I think there were 60 bins. We were not intending to cover the outside, but merely have a lining. We wanted to have a platform in front upon which we could unload our goods. All we desired was strength and dryness. Such bins would have been quite good enough for the purpose. There are men who would undertake to build such silos at a cost of 4d. per bushel.

5620. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: Have you seen similar silos in Russia?—No. The silos there are built of logs.

5621. Do you think it would be weevil proof?—Yes, you cannot have anything more weevil-proof than timber.

5622. By Mr. HARRISON: What part of Russia do you refer to; what were the climatic conditions?—The winter there is very cold.

5623. Did you ever see weevils in that portion of Russia?—Any amount in flour and great quantities had to be thrown out.

5624. For what period was it allowed to stand in the bins before it was transferred to other bins?—Three years.

5625. By Mr. BROWN: How high were the bins at Brookton?—Twelve feet.

5626. By Hon. R. G. ARDAGH: Your grievance is that the Wheat Scheme are harassing you by keeping back your plans; they have not yet been returned to you?—No.

5627. And you cannot get on with the silos?—No.

5628. By the CHAIRMAN: You think that if suitable plans were prepared arrangements could be made whereby the farmers would erect the silos themselves?—Yes.

5629. Under those conditions, there would not be any necessity to get a loan from the Commonwealth?—Most of the farmers are paying 10 per cent. now and if they could get the money at four per cent., it would be very much better for them.

5630. Were the stacks in a bad condition owing to the rain getting at them?—The gale took off the roof. Another thing is that there were two stacks down there, one belonging to the Westralian Farmers and the other to Dreyfus. The Dreyfus stack was shifted in December, and although we made several applications for the other one to be taken away, it was not shifted until June. It was a bit fishy.

5631. Would it not be better if you adopted a system like that in vogue in Canada, whereby you form local societies with a view of erecting silos?—We have done that.

5632. Would your society be willing to join a parent body as in Canada, with a view of constructing a recognised system of silos throughout the State?—We are prepared to do it any day you ask us.

(The witness retired.)

CLEMENT GILES, at present the farmers' representative on the Wheat Board of Australia, sworn and examined:

5633. By the CHAIRMAN: This Commission has been appointed for the purpose of investigating the handling and marketing of the wheat crop under the