5659. Did they give any reason for the advice?—They would not give advice. They said it was a question for us out here.

5660. They did not think there was a possibility of the wheat market dropping out?—They thought the wheat later on would be wanted. It stands to reason you cannot tell the farmers what they are to do, whether to grow wheat or not, and supposing you did tell them not to grow wheat, and the market went up, where would you be for advising if they adopted your advice and did not grow wheat?

5661. Here is the report of a meeting held on the 9th November last, at which a discussion took place and at which Mr. Hughes used these words:—

In regard to the new season's wheat, that is 1917-18, I do not know how we are going to get on with it, whether there is a prospect of selling it, apparently there is, but not a very good one. Britain has 2½ millions which she has not shifted and next year she will grow enough wheat for herself. It does not look very promising, still she may buy it, and if so our troubles will be very much lighter.?—I remember that quite well.

5662. Even Mr. Hughes had some doubt as to whether we should be able to sell wheat?—I can only say, supposing the English Government said they would not buy wheat, they have taken all the ships away for the war; quite right; and they say they will not buy our wheat; we are a part of the Empire. They are helping every other Ally. We are sending our sons to fight, is it likely the English Government will say—"We will not help you." Still we owe England such a lot of money that she would say, "I would rather have your wheat than nothing." Suppose you have a debtor and he said, "I cannot pay the money, but you can have so much produce," you would say, "I will take the produce." I think we are not making enough use of the Agents General in London. Still we know what the English Government is; they do not look at small things and if we tell them the position we are in, they will not have our farmers knocked out.

5663. Still, there is a possibility of them not requiring the wheat?—That is a possibility, but it is not probable. Of course we do not think the war will go on for another year. When we are told that England can grow enough wheat without ours, I do not believe it.

5664. By the CHAIRMAN: I have here a copy of the weekly edition of the "Times" dates May 31st, 1918, in which it was pointed out that England provides four-fifths of her requirements?—I did not see that before. That is taking England alone, but they supply a great deal of wheat to Norway, Sweden, Holland, Denmark, and a great deal of France that grows wheat has been interfered with by the war.

5665. You do not think there is any fear?—No, as long as we keep our wheat in good condition. I am absolutely certain the English Government will take the wheat.

5666. You think they will find the money, whether they take the wheat away or not?—I think they will find the money. What do we read every day about the number of ships being built in America? Even if the war does not end that difficulty will end.

5667. I notice that a deputation waited on the Board. It was introduced by Mr. Gregory, at which it is reported that Mr. Hoover, the American Food Commissioner, stated that if peace was proclaimed this year, they would have 400 million bushels for export there?—They always have a great deal for export. It is a curious thing, but all these years the wheat has been wanted, there has always been a market for it; we have never been without any; Providence has always given us the food and it has always been used. We need not fear. We would be mad to tell our farmers not to grow wheat. We have been constructing railways to carry the wheat and if the farmers stop growing wheat what would the railways do? And here Western Australia is not half as bad as Victoria, or South Australia; they have opened up the mallee lands there and now are they to say to the farmers, "Do not grow wheat." It would mean shutting up the railways.

5668. If peace were proclaimed there would be large areas in other countries placed under crop again?—Yes.

5669. It is a note of warning, may I say, from those in charge. The Wheat Board of England. You do not think there is a possibility of the Wheat Board not being very careful in the amounts they are guaranteeing for wheat in the future?—I would not guarantee more than wheat is likely to bring. The answer to that is simple enough. All the people of Australia are interested in the welfare of the country. It is like the body. You cannot say to the arm, I have no use for you, or to the leg, you are no good to me, I only want my mouth. You cannot say, we only require the people in the towns; we want the people in the country also. We are all bound together. You cannot do a wrong to a class without it coming back on the whole. It is no use worrying ourselves or raising all sorts of fears which may never happen.

5670. My reason for raising the question is that the Australian Wheat Board seemed to think that secrecy was the order of the day?—I do not agree with them, but they have altered that now.

5671. The farmers of this State are not aware of the position and they may look at it from a different light, on account of not being aware of what is taking place?—It is natural the farmers should be anxious. Just fancy the farmers being told not to grow any more wheat! His whole life depends on what wheat he grows. His family would starve. It was a foolish thing to raise the question at all. You know there are natural laws which regulate our affairs for us and we ought not to raise difficulties.

5672. If you had been out on the land alone and the London committee sent advice to the Board that was handling your produce, you would like to know of it?—Yes. They send the inquiry to England. They did not send that answer out to us without first being questioned. A cable was sent to London asking what they thought.

5673. There is no record of that here?—A cable was sent to ask our people in London what they thought. Mr. Hagelthorne was at the bottom of it all.

5674. The wording of a cable sometime gives direction to the reply?—Certainly so. We require optimism rather than pessimism. I have come to the conclusion that it is best to have an executive, to take the question out of politics altogether. The business should be under the Government, but free from politics. I simply want to see this thing put on a proper basis, after which I will retire. The Wheat Board would not allow me to help them. All along they have been working with this Committee, under the influence of the Committee. It is a wrong principle. These men should not be advisers and managers and yet not be responsible. This year we are handling the wheat for more than a penny less than in former years.

5675. You said that of the six firms handling Australian wheat three were chosen by the Board?—Three to begin with.

5676. Was any reason given why the other three should be knocked out?—No.

5677. The Prime Minister gave a promise to the local agents that their businesses would be restored at the close of the war; would that not apply to the wheat agents in London also?—I think it should apply to everyone, but instead of this they have taken their business away altogether. It is a cruel thing.

5678. By Mr. BROWN: Was any explanation given as to why the fourth firm was brought in?—No, but we could guess pretty well that it was because of French influence. It was a French firm and originally they were left out because it was supposed that there was a German capital in the firm.

5679. By the CHAIRMAN: Are the State Boards in the Eastern States based on the same principle as ours, with a Minister and merely an advisory board?—Yes, but they are in a better position inasmuch as they get the advice of Mr. Pitt, the manager of the Pool. Again, both New South Wales and Victoria have a great advantage over the other States in point of shipping.

5680. You said you heard a lot of shipping was offered at 75s. per ton and that the offer was not availed of. Was that owing to the limit fixed by the Wheat Board?—No, it was before the coming of the Board. Originally the