It simply comes to whether you will employ manual labour by contract or by time. If the suggestion which we have put up to the Government for next year's handling, that is handling under Government supervision at depôts and at sidings, is agreed to, we should then much more readily make labour arrangements for time, because we could then keep continuity of work. But where Mr. Keys prevented us from loading, we would have idle men seated on the ground, and scattered bags and empty trucks looking at us. Where it is advisable, we are permitting some of our people to let work by contract. But it is all under the supervision of the co-operative company, or should be.

6387. In the re-trucking of existing depôts, would you favour the work being done by contract or on the day labour principle?— I have really never thought it out. I would first like to see the condition of the stack and so on.

6388. That is just the point. We saw stacks being permanently stacked, in which possibly 20 per cent. will have to be re-bagged?—You are speaking of depôts?

6389. Yes. I am now speaking particularly of Spencer's Brook. If that is done by contract, it will be badly done?— I quite agree with you that it may be badly done. I consider that, under some conditions, day labour would be preferable.

6390. By Mr. HARRISON: Does your three years' experience of handling wheat lead you to think that if the Government have to erect depôts, it would be better to have smaller depôts nearer the growers?— Unquestionably. Without any doubt whatever. In my opinion, that is the key of the position.

6391. Have you noticed the sites at various sidings, as to the kind of soil, or as to the situation being detrimental owing to moisture from below?— Many of the sidings are very much better stacking grounds than the others, whether that is due to condition of soil, or to drainage. But there are many good stacking sites on which sheds should be erected. That would be much more for the good of the wheat than sending it all to central depôts.

6392. Do you consider that the foundations for the stacks should be much higher than they are at present?— On many stacking sites, certainly. I go further and say that the method adopted with small stacks in South Australia is infinitely better than ours.

6393. Do you think it is necessary for wheat growers to realise that they play a most important part in the ultimate good of the Scheme if they wish to get an increased amount over that guaranteed by the Government?— We should try and educate them in that way.

6394. Has it been brought to your notice that sub-agents have attempted to get in old season's wheat left over from the previous year's seedings?— Personally I have never even heard of a rumour of such a thing.

6395. By the CHAIRMAN: With regard to the payment of men for handling wheat; have you always paid persons handling wheat in the small places the amount which was allotted to you, namely 1⅛d.?— Absolutely in all cases, and ⅛d. more in all temporary stacking. We found that out of our own resources because losses were made.

6396. We have had evidence that only 1d. was paid by you?— I cannot believe it. If it is so there will be something said about it. We know that many of the co-operative societies last year made a loss through double handling, and we have since paid from our own funds the extra ⅛d. for every bag which was put into temporary stacks.

6397. By Hon. J. F. ALLEN: You have seen the sheds in the Eastern States; what sort of floors have they?—In South Australia where I went to see the small sheds, they have boarded floors.

6398. Plenty of ventilation?—They are close boarded but lifted well up. There is not only the advantage in connection with the flooring, but also in connection with the roof. Here in a country stack when it is necessary to re-condition and re-bag you have to take the roof off. Then you start and re-condition and the rain comes on and you have to stop while you drag a tarpaulin over the wheat. In South Australia, at the sidings, you will see a 4,000 or 5,000-bag stack, with its floor and just uprights on which the roof is put. When the stack is broken down the wheat is re-conditioned on a clean floor with a roof over it and screens around it. There is absolutely no waste. If you go to Fremantle and see the loading of the two vessels at present there you will find the stack simply walking with weevil. Personally I think when the stack at Fremantle gets worse—and they are bad enough now— you will not be able to load vessels from them without putting the wheat through the re-conditioning shed. When we get ships we will have to start trucking to them, and if we get two or three ships with four or five hatches you can imagine the amount of trucking which will be needed. If you have to depend on Midland Junction and Spencer's Brook depôts you will not be satisfactory trucking arrangements. It would be much better to load from more points. I say that at many of the sidings if sheds were ready as in South Australia, for farmers to put their wheat in dry and have it covered immediately it gets there, there would be a condition which would not breed weevil; it would certainly be a little more expensive but it would be cheaper in the long run.

6399. In South Australia they are erected by the Scheme for the benefit of the acquiring agents?—Yes, and they are sheds, not piffling little things. I do not say build them everywhere, but concentrate a fair amount into those depôts. Take the wheat at Doodlakine, where Mr. Harrison comes from. The wheat is brought in, it is stacked, and later on it is sent to the depôts and re-stacked. If a decent shed had been built at Doodlakine the farmer could have carted the wheat there and it would have been trucked from there to the ship's side. The cost of the shed would have been saved by doing away with the second handling.

6400. By Mr. HARRISON: We have it in evidence from one who was an acquiring agent that no Railway Department in Australia can lift more than about 33 per cent. of the harvest as it is delivered. Would not what you suggest also assist the Railway Department?— Certainly, because you would not be cramming the whole thing into a few weeks. Last year's estimated crop was ten million bushels; we got 7¼ million bushels, and by the 30th April I do not suppose they had a third of it in.

6401. Would it not be better if there were more of these sheds in the outlying districts, and that if there were a greater percentage of wheat would be covered earlier and would remain in a better condition?—Unquestionably. In my opinion a quick covering of wheat is a most important matter. There is one matter I wish to refer to. I notice that we were accused of having given information to the Press which should have been given to the Scheme. I believe the editor of the newspaper in question has denied that any of us gave him this information. I, too, want to deny having given him anything. I do not even know what was referred to. I have never given information to the Primary Producer. I was asked by the editor whether I would supply him with some information about dockages, but I asked him to go to the Scheme to get it there. He told me afterwards that he did so.

(The witness retired.)

The SOLICITOR GENERAL, Mr. W. F. SAYER, sworn and examined:

6402. By the CHAIRMAN: It has been given in evidence that writs have been ordered to be issued to some of the acquiring agents in regard to what is termed the contract wheat. Would you inform the Commission what has been done in the matter?—This is in reference to Clause 14 of the millers' agreement contained in the Wheat Marketing Act of 1916. The second paragraph of this clause was no part of the draft agreement as originally prepared by me, but was inserted before the agreements were signed. I think the contention of Mr. W. D. Johnson is that what he intended was that the agent should only have the right to acquire for his legitimate requirements this contract wheat, so far as he was committed to contracts for overseas shipments. The paragraph reads—

The agent may acquire such wheat from the Minister for his own legitimate requirements at the current price as fixed by the State Wheat committee, but such price shall be subject to adjustment on the ultimate realisation of the harvest to a price equal to such rate per bushel as is receivable by the farmer under this scheme.

Under Clause 14, apart from this paragraph, the miller was pooling the contract wheat, that is to say, bringing