under our 1916-17 stacks, whereas none of the other firms have any. The advantage of these tarpaulins is twofold. The rats do not like the tar, and the tarpaulins prevent leakage between the decking. Mr. Paton produced a sample of screens to the Commission and alleged that the screens were inferior. This screen was produced after it had been in use for about 18 months. I was inclined to think that the screens were inferior at first, but Mr. Taylor, when in the Eastern States, found that firms there were using the same class of material, and that it was standing well. We therefore considered it was quite equal to the work of protection here. Mr. Paton made allegations regarding the experience of Mr. Cohen, our Fremantle manager. Mr. Cohen has handled all lines, and when you have mixed- business such as we have it is impossible to get a man having experience of all. He is a man of thorough business experience and well qualified to undertake such work as is required of him. He had permanently on the wharf a thoroughly qualified and experienced wharf manager. It has been suggested that our contention that there has been duplication in regard to records has no foundation in fact. I believe that during Mr. Murray's evidence there was an impression that in the matter of the records of payments to certificate holders the work at present being done by the Scheme could not be eliminated.

6624. By the CHAIRMAN: Some of it?—-Most of it can be eliminated. At the beginning of this season we saw certain directions in which the bulk of the work could be cut out altogether. We put a proposal before the accountant of the Scheme, but on some pretext or other he would not countenance it. I should like to explain the idea to the Commission. I have here our record of certificates issued. The Scheme asked us to keep this record in numerical order, and we have done so. When we found that the Scheme would not fall in with our suggestion to unite and compile one return, which would cut out a lot of work being done by both of us, we naturally stuck out for as little detail to be given in the return as possible. It would be better for us and the Scheme to have, embodied in one, our record of the certificates issued and the Scheme's record of the financing of certificates. This could be done by the addition of a few columns on the return as shown here. The system we propose would eliminate all dual work.

6625. By Mr. BROWN: Are all banking accountants booked up in other directions?— The record of certificates is all written over again by the Scheme. We have issued 11,231 certificates, and all the work you see in this book has been done twice over by us and once by the Scheme from the information we supplied. The same dual system obtains in regard to depot records and in regard to records of wheat railed ex country stacks to mills. We have the books in our office and the Scheme have books in theirs. With the addition of an extra column or two we could do the work which they are doing. I have been struck with the complete lack of organisation existing in connection with the handling under the Pool system. If one puts up a suggestion one is told that it is a matter either for the railways or a Minister or the general manager or the Board or someone else. There is to much time wasted in tinkering with little things. Because of this the farmer's property and one of the State's most valuable assets is either being wasted or excessive costs are being incurred. An experienced business man with organising capacity and executive powers will do more genuine work in a day than the Wheat Advisory Board, the Minister, Cabinet, the Railway Department, the auditor, and all the appurtenances of red tape administration are doing in a month. No other country in the world but Australia would tolerate existing methods.

6626. By the CHAIRMAN: With an executive board how would you manage with regard to finances?— In normal times there would be no difficulty, but there would be a difficulty under present conditions. I am of opinion that the greater efficiency which would be secured would offer a better inducement to the financing party to lend the money.

6627. You think there could be a great deal of saving in the handling of the wheat?— Yes.

6628. What responsibility is attached to the wheat once it is put into the depot, except that of caretaking, looking after the screens, etc?— I think that would be all, except the responsibility in regard to outturn, and delivery to ships and mills.

6629. If the acquiring agent stacked at the depot and sampled there, you think he should also be responsible for the sampling? — Yes.

6630. If the Scheme had an inspector to see that the wheat put into the depot was up to quality and weight, which the acquiring agent said he had acquired, and which the Scheme had to pay for, do you think there would be any necessity for any further responsibility to be thrown on the acquiring agent?— I think that would probably cut that out. It would all depend from which point of view I was looking at the matter. If I was engaged from the point of view of acquiring agent I should say " Let us have a Government man at the depot and be quit of our responsibility." If I was looking at it from the point of view of a Government man I should probably endeavour to attach to the acquiring agent as much responsibility as possible and eliminate necessity of inspection costs.

6631. If there is no responsibility why do you wish to put it on the acquiring agents?— There are responsibilities. It seems to me that Government inspection at depots is unnecessary. It would only lead to interference and trouble such as have existed before.

6632. You would not yourself pay on wheat which was sent in unless you had some person to certify that the goods had been delivered?— If the acquiring firm give a guarantee as to the quality and put up their money that should be sufficient, and in ordinary times it is sufficient.

6633. That has been done for two years here. Mr. McGibbon is forcible in his statement that while this was done it was impossible for the Government to place the responsibility for any neglect or for any wheat that was acquired not being up to the standard. Therefore the farmer has paid for a responsibility without obtaining any result?— Better precautions could be taken with a view of placing responsibility in future. The responsibility of Scheme and acquiring agents should be more clearly defined, and should be brought home to both parties, not to one only. if dealing with the matter from an acquiring agent's point of view, I would not object to an inspector being at the depot to see that the wheat was of quality as stated in the certificate, providing that he did not interfere with labour and that there was no dual control. But it has been tried in the Eastern States and dispensed with as unnecessary.

6634. He would have to see that the wheat was stacked properly, so that there should be no risk of falling?— If the wheat were stacked in such a way that it fell, that should be the acquiring agent's risk, and he would have to rebuild.

6635. But if the Government relieved the acquiring agent of responsibility once the wheat was put into the depot?— I think the responsibility on the acquiring agent should remain.

6636. You think there was an opportunity for the Scheme to enforce that responsibility on the acquiring agents for 1915-16 and 1916-17?—Yes. Acquiring agents had to rebuild fallen stacks.

6637. The time had to be limited on account of the conditions, in order to allow the persons tendering for the amount they find necessary for the responsibility?—One of the chief causes owing to which responsibilities might have been evaded was the fact that at the time the agreements were drawn up for the 1915-16 season it was not thought that the wheat would be here so long. Had it been known that the wheat would not be away within the period of the agreement, the Government would have been more careful to see that responsibility was placed on the proper shoulders.

6637A. When the time expired, would it still be possible? Who can prophesy now when the wheat will be shipped?— Well, have a longer agreement.

6638. By Mr. BROWN: Would not the agreement then represent a speculation as to the length of time the wheat would remain here?— We could without difficulty now put up a price for the care of the depots for the next two years.

6639. You are the recognised wheat expert of the Westralian Farmers, Ltd.?— Yes.

6640. What experience have you had in wheat in Australia?— I have been continuously associated with the administration of large agricultural interests since I left school. At the age of 21 I was chief assistant to the manager of the late Sir Donald Currie's large agricultural estates on which there were 30 or 40 farms, and at the age of 23 I was appointed as assistant manager of a large Indian estate. Then I have had experience as a grower. I have been handling big agricultural interests from early years.

6641. Were you long in the wheat business in India?— I was not in the wheat business in India. On the estate with which I was connected we grew a number of products. The chief one for oversea shipment was tea. I have experience of the handling of many agricultural products.

6642. As regards the weevil encountered in Western Australia, had you had any experience of weevil previously?— No. It is only with the advent of existing conditions that the weevil has become such a pest. Very few men have had experience of it.