6983. By the CHAIRMAN : Would you be surprised to hear that your expert said that the wheat was taken out of the bottom and put in at the top in order to clear it from weevil; this by means of a belt going round?—Nowadays one is not surprised at what experts do say.

6984. By Mr BROWN : Did the Minister consult the Advisory Board in connection with the re-introduction of the Grain Elevators Bill into Parliament since that measure was thrown out?—I do not think the question of re-introducing the Bill has yet come before the Advisory Board.

6985. By the CHAIRMAN : Do you know if Mr Keys was engaged in the office on the Scheme prior to Mr Sibbald's resignation?—No, he was not.

6986. By Mr BROWN : Mr Sibbald resigned on the 26th October, did he not?—Before that, I think. I think he sent his resignation before that. It may possibly have been accepted on the 26th, and that he left the office on the 31st.

6987. Mr Keys was engaged on the 3rd December?—He started duty, yes.

6988. Previous to that was he in the office assisting in any shape or form?—During November for a week or so prior to the 3rd December he was assisting. I used to consult him on any important matter. He was told from Melbourne to keep in touch with me.

6989. By the CHAIRMAN : Not before Mr Sibbald resigned?— Oh dear, no. This was long after Mr Sibbald resigned. A fortnight or three weeks after he left. He resigned about ten days before the resignation was accepted.

6990. What date did Dreyfus' agreement expire?—On the 31st December, 1917.

6991. Why was it cancelled prior to that date?— I do not think it was cancelled prior to that.

6992. Why were they relieved of their obligations prior to that date?—I do not think they were.

6993. The Board was not consulted as to whether Dreyfus' bond for £20,000 should be handed back prior to the expiration of the agreement?—No.

6994. Was the Board aware it was handed back?—Not until afterwards. The Board at the time was just beginning. I think Mr Sutton was away in the East with the Minister. Mr Hammond had resigned; I do not think the Board had met.

6995. Then it was handed back by the Minister without consulting anyone?—Without consulting the Board.

6996. Handing back the deposit was equal to relieving them of their responsibility?—You still have the legal remedy, but you would not have the bond behind you. As a matter of fact, Dalgety never had a bond.

6997. Why were they allowed to continue without a bond?— That was following on the arrangement made by Mr Johnson when Minister. Dalgety's maintain that they were in the nature of a banking institution, practically bankers, and there was no need for them to put up a bond. Mr Johnson said he never subscribed to that, bit Mr Leeds said he did. There was a fight for several months about the bond, but it was never obtained from them.

(The witness retired.)

The Commission adjourned.

TUESDAY, 3rd SEPTEMBER, 1918. (At Perth.)

Present: Hon. W. C. Angwin, M.L.A., Chairman. Hon. J. F. Allen, M.L.C. | Hon. R. .G Ardagh, M.L.C. S. M. Brown, Esq., M.LA. | T. H. Harrison, Esq., M.L.A.

THOMAS SYDNEY JOHN HALL, further examined:

6998. By the CHAIRMAN : Have you prepared a return showing the quantity of wheat acquired, the quantity sold, the amount received, the quantity exported, and the quantity used locally during the three years, each separately?—I have not been able to prepare separate returns. I have, however, had them prepared separately with regard to the acquirements and disposals. What you desire is to follow up the acquisitions with the disposals. That is impracticable under the arrangement with the Australian Wheat Board regarding the principles settled for the separation of the Pools.

6999. I understood that each year had to be kept separately?—That is impossible in the disposal.

7000. How would they be able to finalise the payments in each year?—That is fully set out in the principles set down in the separation of the Pools. It would be unfair, for instance, to give the benefit of the shipping of say January and February, 1917, other than to the 1916-17 wheat. although there was a balance of the year 1915-16 on hand unshipped. The return I have shows the wheat acquired, the quantity shipped, the amount sold locally, the stocks on hand, and the total quantity handled for the three separate seasons.

7001. Have you a return showing the amount of money received, the advances made to farmers, and the expenses?—I have a return showing the different payments made to the farmers from various Pools. In 1915-16 we paid them in advances £2,996,092; in 1916-17 £2,237,380, and in 1917-18 up to the present £908,799, the payments totalled £6,142,271. This return shows the various advances and the dividends paid to the various pools at particular date.

7002. Does it show the cost of administration per bushel as well?—Not on this return.

7003. Can you get that for us?—I can get it according to the basis laid down by the Australian Wheat Board, but that will not follow the actual grain of wheat of 1915-16 and 1916-17 crop. There is a line of demarcation drawn between the wheats of those pools. The expenses before the end of the year 1916 go to the 1915-16 Pool, and the expenses after to the 1916-17 Pool.

7004. Then any work done in connection with the disposal of the 1915-16 Pool which was left over on the 31st December, is charged to 1916-17?—So far as shipments are concerned, yes, subject to certain modifications, as you will see in the long statement set out by the Australian Wheat Board, which is on the files you have.

7005. Will you put in the returns you have prepared?—I will put in returns showing (1) payments on Pools up to and including 29th July, 1918, (2) wheat returns to the 26th August, 1918, (3) return of the wheat acquirements of the various agents for the three years, (4) schedule extracted from the minute of the general manager prepared at the request of the Minister on 6th August, 1918, on file W.M.S. 518/18. This last return shows that the wheat will have to realise 5s. 2d. per bushel f.o.b. to clear the guarantee of 4s. 4d. per bushel at sidings, less railage.