An arrangement like that does not get filed away and forgotten.

7290. Does not this appear to have been forgotten for seven months?▬Yes, because the occasion to fulfil the arrangement did not arise until recently.

7291. Suppose Mr Keys had died or gone away, would there not then have been a possibility of the arrangement being overlooked altogether?▬Scarcely, seeing that there are two parties to the agreement.

7292. We have been told that the Railway Department relied upon you to notify them. Suppose they had never been notified?▬They must have been fully aware of the agreement.

7293. But if you did not call their attention to it, they would not have made any deduction?▬I think I would see that the arrangement, even if unfavourable to the Scheme was carried out once it was definitely settled.

7294. But, like yourself, their officer did not know anything about it. They were notified to charge direct to depots?▬As soon as I knew of the agreement, prompt action was taken to give effect to it.

7295. The reason why it was not given effect to earlier was that you were not aware of it?▬This is so.

7296. By Mr BROWN: Can you supply is with a list of the trucks and their weights which since 4th January, have gone from the original siding or right through, or that have been re-consigned from the siding to the depot and sent again right through?▬I think I can get it from the stock books. There are certain stations which that agreement will not cover. The bulk of that wheat has gone back to the Northam mill, and the railage there from Spencer's Brook is only 2s 6d.

7297. By the CHAIRMAN: Then additional freight has to be paid on any wheat which is sent into a depot and is railed back again from the depot to any mill?▬If the railage does not exceed 2s 6d yes.

7298. The 2s 6d covers railage to port?▬At the time the arrangement was made, it was intended that it should cover railage to mills also. In the letter I sent to the Railways last night, mills were definitely mentioned in addition to ports.

7299. By Mr HARRISON: Do you know if these charges have been made on any of last year's wheat taken from Midland Junction depot and railed somewhere else?▬In all probability there is other wheat from Midland. Some has gone to Fremantle.

7300. You spoke of there being odd trucks?▬That paper dealt with Spencer's Brook depot.

7301. Do you know what has taken place at the various depôts in regard to shipments of wheat?▬You mean quantities deal very little with quantities.

7302. On the day of our visit to Midland Junction one or two bays were being broken down on account of weevil pickers and that was being re-loaded into trucks. you do not know anything about the freights on that wheat?▬If the freights were submitted by the Railway Department they have been paid. To date there has been nothing given effect to under that agreement.

7303. That has all to be adjusted?▬There will be very little adjustment to make if my suggestion is adopted.

7304. By Hon. J. F. Allen: You say it is a fortnight since you were first advised of the arrangement with the Railways. Do you think it would have been before last Friday week the 6th inst.?—I cannot say off-hand.

7305. It may have been on that day or a day or so later?—I think it was before any mention was made of the matter to the Commission.

7306. The report of evidence adduced before the Commission is regularly perused by some of your officers. Mr. Keys would know of any information given to the Commission?—I think Mr. Keys first mentioned it to me before any mention of it was made before the Commission.

7307. You do not think that the fact of its being mentioned before the Commission brought it back to Mr. Key's mind?—I do not think so.

7308. The arrangement applies to only wheat going to ports?—It states so in that letter, but Mr. Keys takes it and I take it that it applies also to mills. I mentioned mills in the discussion with the railway officers and in writing afterwards I definitely stated mills in addition to ports.

7309. That is where wheat is not drawn over the same line twice?—You cannot get the through rate if it goes over the same line twice, but you can take the flat average rate into the depot and then, if the railing out is in excess of 2s. 6d., this arrangement can operate.

7310. So you intend it to operate in regard to both mills and ports?—Absolutely.

7311. By Mr. HARRISON: Was not that 2s. 6d. extra for payment of depot shunting charges?—I have no knowledge of the circumstances which led up to the arrangement.

7312. If the 2s. 6d. was for depot shunting charges, would it not mean that any further railing even if under 2s. 6d., would be debited to the Scheme?—Obviously your method of calculating the 2s. 6d. is not quite correct. The 2s. 6d. is calculated on the through rate from the original sidings, ignoring the two short railages, one into and one out of the depot. If wheat was railed from Bruce Rock into Spencer's Brook, later on taken from Spencer's Brook and re-railed to North Fremantle, the 2s. 6d. extra would be plussed on to the through rate from Bruce Rock to North Fremantle, irrespective of the two short railages.

7313. You do not know what the 2s. 6d. is for?—I should say there was a considerable saving to the Scheme. In fact there is a saving.

7314. Are there any shunting charges for the 2s. 6d.?—No, with the exception of wheat coming to the Midland Junction depot from the Midland line. In that case the Government Railway Department gets no revenue whatever, but takes the wheat over from the Midland Railway Company at Midland Junction, and shunts it into our depots at 6d. a ton. If it did not get that 6d. a ton it would have to do the shunting for nothing.

7315. If the charge was under 2s. 6d. from the depot to the mill or port, that amount would be charged?—If the freight was 1s. 6d. instead of 2s. 6d. the 2s. 6d. would not be charged.

7316. The first freight is, say, 6s. 3d. into the depot. There is an extra charge of 2s. 6d. and a charge of 1s. 3d. from Spencer's Brook to the Northam mill?—The minimum charge on the railways is 2s. 6d.

7317. The full freight on the three lines would be 11s. 3d.?—That is not correct. The 2s. 6d. extra would not operate. This 2s. 6d. cannot operate unless the second short railage is in excess of the 2s. 6d. extra, which is to be charged.

7318. Then no portion of the 2s. 6d. goes to shunting charges?—Not in that particular instance. There are none, apparently. I have worked out roughly the average railage paid on wheat into Spencer's Brook. Say it is 7s. 6d. per ton on the first journey. It then increases approximately another 8s. on the second short journey to North Fremantle, if we pay the short railage in and the short railage out. Instead of doing that we pay the full railage from the first point to the last, which, in this particular instance, works up to about 10s. 6d. plus 2s. 6d. That would bring the through railage up to an average of 13s., whereas if we had paid the two short railages we would have paid 7s. 6d. for the freight into Spencer's Brook on the first journey, and 8s. out again to the North Fremantle wharf. There is, therefore, a saving of about 3s. effected.

7319. By the CHAIRMAN: Up to the present no arrangements have been made so far as the mills are concerned?—Such an arrangement has not been reduced to writing, but Mr. Keys is of opinion that when the arrangement was made mills, as well as the port, would be covered.

7320. This letter says, "Deducted from railage to the port. It has been agreed that the Scheme shall deduct the railage from the sending station to the port plus 2s. 6d."?—Mr. Hope gave me to understand that he did not think there would be any objection on the part of the railways to the mills being included. Nothing has been reduced to writing so far as I know, and no verbal arrangement has been made so far as I know. Mr. Keys may be able to inform the Commission on the point.

7321. If Mr. Keys had understood that the arrangement was to include mills, do you not think he would have replied to this and stated that the arrangement was also for mills as well as the port?—I know nothing of what led up to the letter.

7322. Mr. Keys says "We understand this includes the mills as well." He only says on the file, "File K71/18." If he understood that mills were included, would he not have drawn the attention of the Railway Commissioner immediately to this fact? Would you not