8472. By Mr VENN : Do sheep do well here?- I have not had as many sheep before as I have this year. They are the only thing I have made any money out of during the past few years. A farmer without sheep is not farming at all.

8473. To the CHAIRMAN : There are three outstanding facts--

8474. (1.) That money is dear, and there is not enough of it.

8475. (2.) Protection from having to pay high rates for machinery.

8476. (3.) Very often, the man himself. They will not get up at 5'oclock in the morning and work till dark. If a man does not put his alarm clock on for 5:30 a.m., he should pull out of farming. I have been sorry ever since I came on to the land myself. Farming is all right, but the making of farms is all wrong.

(The witness retired.)

JOHN THOMAS WEST, Farmer, Dumbleyung, sworn and examined :

8477. By the CHAIRMAN : How long have you been in the district?- Since 1900. I was brought up on a Victorian farm, and was afterwards on the press. I have 1,3000 acres, of which 1,000 is first class, and the price 10s. I have from one to three miles cartage to the railway. The property is sheep proof fenced and subdivided into six paddocks : 1,000 acres are cleared. There are three dams, two of 1,000 and one of 500 cubic yards. This year two of them are empty. In normal years the supply is permanent. I am a married man with three children over school age. The school is three miles away. I have a four roomed weatherboard house. The property I have now is not the one I originally held. I settled at Ballaying first and sold to Mr Murdoch, and then bought in here. That was in 1912. I have all the necessary stabling and sheds and a set of implements, 14 working horses, 600 sheep, 12 head of cattle. When I started in 1900 my capital was about £100. I put in here £5,000, namely £2,000 into the farm and £3,000 into the town. I deal with the National Bank. My overdraft is £2,700 in connection with business, about £1,000 of which is on the farm. I have 500 acres of crop going 11 bushels.

8477a. By Mr PAYNTER : How much of that was fallow?- Two hundred acres. I plough four inches for fallow in July and August. Between ploughing and seeding I had no cultivation. I believe in about half fallow and half cultivated. I have experimented with many varieties of seed, but find none better than Lott's year in and year out. I sow 45lbs. of late wheats, and a bushel of early wheats to the acre. It is pickled and winnowed. I am free from smut. On one occasion I suffered from a plague of grubs. I sow one bag of super. to three acres. I pay a man and a boy £4 a week and extra labour, say £225, for putting in 500 acres. That is wages alone. The highest average I have had was 10 years ago at Bullaying--16 bushels. A man should hold 1,000 acres to make a living; 300 acres should be cleared, so as to give him a good start. I started on 100 acres. With 300 acres a man can get two crops off on virgin country and can have another lot cleared. A man should be able to handle 300 acres himself. I think the price of land is far too high. The 10s. valuation was the best we have had. I have no complaint to make about land conditions or regulations, but ever since the increase in the price of land has taken place, it has been against the man himself. It would be better if a man could get five years exemption from rent and out the money into improvements.

8478. By Mr VENN : You go in for sheep?- I have not carried 600 sheep all the year round. I run the butchering business. Three hundred all the year round would be enough and then one would have to get rid of the lambs early and you could not run that number without cropping. With stubble I could carry 600 sheep for a few months.

8479. By the CHAIRMAN : I would like your candid opinion of the future of the district?- I am perfectly satisfied with it.

8480. Have you any matters of special importance that you wish to bring under our notice?- Land rents should be altered and five years exemption from them given to every man who comes here. The people out at Lake Grace pay more freights than they should and the land there is poorer and more arid. It is morel, but it will improve when consolidated. At one time Ballaying the land was very ashy and you could plough it better in summer--that is the morel country--but it is not now the case as it is consolidated land. Land that used to be nine inches of dust is today consolidated. In another 10 years there will be a great growth of fodder without consolidating. Turning in the vegetation seems to me to bind it. I am referring, of course, to morrel country. There is another matter. There are a number of men on the Industries Assistance Board, who are inexperienced, and the time must come when 50 per cent. of them will be eliminated. They have lost ambition and are on the board for all time.

8481. By the CHAIRMAN : Not 50 per. cent of them, but a percentage. As a class, they have been badly treated over the railway question. While the politicians settled their difficulties and decided where the railway should go, they have had to cart up to 80 miles. Confidence should be restored. They are satisfied to remain and they only want a chance?- I will withdraw my remark about 50 per. cent and call it 20 per. cent. It would be better for them and for the country if they were away off the land.

8482. The administration has been all wrong and the expense of this Royal Commission will be fully justified by our report?- Mr Newman is one of our best farmers. When Messr. Lukin and Fisher came here, they all tried to emulate them, as they are the best farmers in Western Australia. They are worth thousands of pounds to the district. In another district, where the leading man is slovenly the rest of the settlers follow suit. A young fellow named Rose, now at Lake Grace, came to my place at Ballaying eight years ago. He had been employed in a draper's shop in St. Helen's, Lancashire, and he paid a farmer 10s. in England to give him some experience for a week so that he could answer the set of questions put to him by the Immigration authorities before coming out here. He put in two years with me. He has now one of the best farms at Lake Grace and delivered over 1,000 bags of wheat this year and 1,500 last year. That shows it is not always inexperienced men who do not make good. The Cook Bros. at the 118 Gate, came from