8502. By the CHAIRMAN: What part has the Department of Agriculture taken in this district? - We asked Mr Connor to come here. He did so and gave us a lecture in Wagin and told us we could not make butter here. We wanted him to come down again but he replied he was trespassing on Mr Sutton's preserves.

8503. Have you noticed any system in existence by which the departmental experts keep in touch with the settlers? - So far as I know none whatever. I do not think they are doing their duty, especially as far as fruit growing is concerned. The inspector will come to my orchard and order me to spray things that do no damage and those things that are damaging he takes no notice of. We have had Professor Patterson up here but the department is out of touch with us. The results of the work at Narrogin never reach the farmers and therefore cannot be any guide to them.

8504. The Department of Agriculture seems to have neither head nor extremities and loses itself in a futile round of detail? - If we had frost-resisting wheats, possibly the output might be raised. That in itself is an important matter for investigation. Then again the Agricultural Bank insists on fencing. Messrs, Bell & Arcus put up their fence. They are in the mallee country. When burning started they had their fence burnt down. For many years the settlers had only one wire, but to insist on fencing as a commencement is absurd. The time for fencing is when they are preparing for sheep. We were instructed by the Government to include up to 300 acres of poor land in the holdings; that means that every thousand acres carries 300 acres of bad land. To fence it is absurd, for the farmer must have internal fences. It is intended to settle some returned soldiers at Lake Grace but the price of the land is ridiculously high.

Another question is that of the properties in the hands of the Agricultural Bank. We got a list of them from the department. Here is the first case - "Amount advanced £445, interest to date £92 16s." How can any man take up that proposition with that burden on it. It has been no good to the previous holder. The Government should cut that loss, but with blocks round here which are forfeited the moment the man goes off the land it begins to depreciate. If they give him 25s. for clearing, the suckers will eventually grow up and a man has to spend 6s. to 8s. in cutting suckers. The Government must accept the position as it stands. From the moment he takes up the block he starts to pay interest and a high land rent. At present you cannot get a reduction and the question seems to be drifting. You will find that they may have been paid for clearing whereas some of it has been only cut down. The position will have to be faced.

The Government are losing interest and land rents and freights over the railways. We cannot expect returned soldiers to take up a proposition of that sort. There are good farms in the settled areas near the railways and yet the Government is holding them up because they are not game to face the position. It will mean £200,000 or £300,000 being written off, but that is nothing compared with the loss on the Coolgardie Water System.

(The witness retired.)

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EUGENE JOSEPH CANTWELL, Farmer, Dumbleyung, sworn and examined:

8505. By the CHAIRMAN: How long have you been in this district? - Since 1913. I was farming all my life in Victoria. I have 1,850 acres; some of it is priced at 9s. and some at 12s. It is 10 miles from the railway. There is no fencing on it, and 700 acres are cleared. I have a 1,000 cubic yard dam, which is three parts full. I am a married man with five children, four of whom attend school. I have a two-roomed galvanised lean-to house, and a bush shed, a set of implements, seven working horses and two others and one pig. I had £300 cash when I started. I borrowed £645 from the Agricultural Bank, and to the Industries Assistance Board and other creditors I owe £700. 270 acres are in crop, going five bushels.

8506. To Mr PAYNTER: How much of that was fallowed? - Fifty acres. As soon as I finish seeding I have to spend two months root picking and sucker cutting, particularly in the mallee country. I find Stienwedel and Marshall's Hybrid the best seed for early wheats.

8507. By the CHAIRMAN: What do you consider yourself to be the quantity of first class land you hold, irrespective of the government classification? - Five hundred in all. The balance is mallee and scrub. I have 100 acres of timber country cleared and the balance cleared is mallee. The Bank paid £1 an acre for that. The first cost is hardly that, but since that it has cost more than the timbered country. I paid 22s. 6d. an acre, although the Bank only advanced me £1. I have not been able to get a fire through the mallee country. It is particularly loose land on rising ground, but on the flat it is hard - on a hard, cement subsoil.

8508. By Mr PAYNTER: How much super. do you use per acre? - Last year I went light on the super. After ploughing I drill straight away. The spring coming in early might have had something to do with my bad luck. I have still the suckers on the land I cleared four years ago. I have not one-third of the stumps out. It is costly country on machinery. Out of the 700 acres cleared I have been unable to cope with it all and had to let 200 acres revert to its original condition. My experience of mallee is that the first five years you are working at a loss until you can kill the suckers. If I got it for nothing for five years I would have gone to the wall on it. It is not possible to get any return for five years and even when the suckers and roots are out of it, it is going to be a light producing land, going not more than from seven to nine bushels. I inspected the land before I took it up and was satisfied, but I was ignorant of what mallee land really is. I have made an absolute failure of it and am insolvent on it.

8509. Have you ever tried a mouldboard plough on it? - I did, but I went into discs to cut the suckers. I have not the strength to deal with the stumps. It would want eight good horses and a four-furrow plough when the land is soft. Then you could get over it.

(The witness retired.)