stance, the sleepers had to be carried to scene of operations, and also that water had to be carried as well. The cost of taking the rails to Norseman ran out, in connection with the construction of that line, at £264 a mile and sleepers another £300 a mile. Yet this is one of the lines which was selected to show that the construction work by day labour was no more expensive than by contract. Another line which was selected for purposes of comparison with the agricultural lines was the Nannine-Meekatharra railway. You can imagine what the freight of sleepers and rails for this line came to; it was very high indeed. I call that kind of thing trickery. What we require in this country is cheap railways. Of course they have missed the opportunity of building them since the commencement of the war, and they will have to wait until the war is over. The lines must also be built closer together, and the carting for farmers will have to be much cheaper than it has been. If a farmer has to spend half his life 28 or 30 miles from a railway he cannot possibly be expected to do any good. Most of the people, when they took up their land, found that on the plans the routes of proposed railways were marked. If a private individual did that kind of thing he would be prosecuted. The Government seem to forget that when they put people on the land they are dealing wit the lives of those people. They should only travel about the country as much as I do and they would see many wives of farmers engaged in picking roots and the children carting water and doing other work. It is not a fair deal to these people at all. The Government are only playing with this big country of ours, and my opinion is that Australia is one of the finest undeveloped countries in the world.

10100. What is your opinion of existing railway freights so far as they affect the farmers?— When the railway people place railway with many unnecessary curves, you cannot expect them to provide cheap freights. Our freights are very heavy in comparison with those in existence in a country like Canada. But our railways are not graded as are the railways in Canada. If some attention were paid to this matter it would be possible to run bigger trains and provide cheaper freights.

10101. From the State's point of view, do you think it would be good policy to cheapen the freights and run the railways at a loss as an indirect subsidy towards the development of the country?— In the altered condition of things I think it was wrong to the increase the freight on phosphates. If the railways had wanted to make a profit they should have gone about it the other way. I think wheat should be carried at the cheapest possible rate because the more of anything of the kind you get to run the cheaper you should be able to run it. I would like to say something also on the subject of the wheat stacks in the country. Nearly every stack has iron laid on it on timber. One would think that we were living in a country where there were no trees, and where it was not possible to obtain posts. Would it not be very much cheaper to make the iron a fixture and so make big sheds. At the present time a few sheets are put over the wheat and the wind blows them about and they have to be handled frequently. Surely it would not cost any more to provide the kind of covering for the wheat stacks that I have suggested. I would say that it would be advisable to have a big lean-to shed or a shed so constructed that railway wagons could be taken through the centre of it. The stacks would then be on either side, and the men working in it could work under dry conditions, and the wagons, too, could remain unsheeted. Judging by what has been done, one would think that we were going to have only one crop of wheat produced in this country.

10102. By Mr. VENN: A suggestion has been made to the Commission that a motor trolly should be run on those agricultural lines on which trains run only once a week. This trolly would be for the convenience of settlers. They have a trolly of this kind on the Midland railway?— Have not the railway people solved that problem; they run their own men out on these motor trolleys. Are their own men as important as the agriculturists for whom the railway lines were built? They have solved the problem to suit themselves, and not the public. I should certainly say that motor trolleys of the kind you suggest should be employed by the Railway Department for the convenience of farmers and for the carriage of light parcels. But there must be someone with some sense placed in charge of them. I would suggest that you should ascertain what kind of trolleys are in use in the United States under similar conditions. Mr Connolly, the newly appointed Agent General, is going through the States, and he could make some inquiries for you.

(The witness retired.)

JOHN WILLIAM DARKER, Assistant Engineer, Railway Department, sown and examined:

10103. By Mr CLARKSON: What operations do your officials duties cover?— When any surveys are to be made I instruct the surveyors, and after the survey I give instructions to have the plans plotted, estimates prepared, and all details attended to. Before the line is constructed, I generally walk over the route and inspect the grades and the various works required on the line.

10104. Have you power to deviate the line at all?— Within prescribed limits, yes. In fact up to 10 miles. If on going over the line we find little engineering difficulties, we might make small deviations for improvement.

10105. Has your department anything to say as to the methods of construction?— The Engineer-in-Chief decides whether it is to be light or a heavy line.

10106. By Mr. VENN: Who chooses the siding sites?— The surveyor is supposed to look for such sites.?— After the survey the matter is referred to the Lands Department and also to the Working Railways.

10107. By Mr. PAYNTER: The question is not at any time submitted to local residents?— I do not think so. I have at times seen the district surveyor with the plans. Afterwards the head office deals with it.

10108. What leads up to the construction of a line?— Perhaps a deputation waits on the Minister, who then authorises a trial survey. After the survey Cabinet decides that the line shall be constructed.