Sometimes it is decided to construct before the trial survey is made. My department makes the survey.

10109. Is your department responsible for the charges on goods passing over the line while under construction?—Yes. I cannot tell you on what basis those charges are fixed. As a matter of fact, we would much rather not have the goods passing over the line while under construction. It hinders the progress of the line.

10110. By Mr. CLARKSON: Have you ever found it necessary to deviate up to anything like the prescribed limit?—I do not remember it. As a rule, the deviations for engineering purposes are not very great.

10111. By Mr. PAYNTER: From an engineering point of view, which do you prefer, loop or spur lines?—The Working Railways like the loops. I think the Advisory Board practically decides whether a line shall be a loop or a spur.

10112. By Mr. CLARKSON: Do you consider the laying down of light agricultural lines justified from an economical point of view?—It all depends on the quantity of produce in the district. If it is likely to increase one could still put down a light line on easier grades. If the produce is not likely to increase for many years to come one could afford to build the line with steeper grades.

10113. Have the light lines which are running this State proved satisfactory from a running point of view?—Yes, I think so.

(The witness retired.)

FREDERICK SLADE BROCKMAN, Surveyor General, recalled:

10114. By Mr. CLARKSON: Is the Railway Advisory Board under direct Ministerial control?—Yes, it is under the control of the Premier.

10115. Where does the first suggestion come from, generally speaking, in regard to a line?—It is supposed to come to the Board from the Premier's office, but we have on occasions had suggestions from other Ministers. The late Premier once took exception to our receiving suggestions from another Minister, and it is really to the Premier that we look. We are notified that a railway line has been asked for, or is being considered, and are instructed to report on it. I suppose the board have a dozen or fifteen lines in hand at the present time. As they appear urgent to us the Board in the first instance collect some preliminary information as regards settlement and selection from our departmental records. We then pay a visit to the locality. We traverse the area that would be served by the proposed line, or by an alternative line. We meet the settlers and get any information or suggestions from them, and they usually guide us over the country, showing us what they wish us to see. We look at as much else as we can during the time we are engaged on the ground. On our return to the head office we collect a great mass of data that we have in our records in connection with classification and the area selected, and all we can get in regard to the country, local data, etc., and from this and our knowledge of local colour as the result of our inspection we prepare our report.

10116. Do you assess the amount of first class land which is likely to be served by the proposed line within a certain radius?—The question of the amount of first class land suitable for development that would be served within a reasonable radius of the proposed railway is the principal factor which guides us, rather than the actual amount of production of which it is capable at the time of our inspection. The residents of the district try largely to fill us up with statistics with regard to the quantity of crop which was produced upon the ground during some previous season. To my mind that is not really a good argument. If the land has been turned to good account with the existing railways, it is rather an argument in favour of the existing system being sufficient at any rate for the present. Where we find large areas suitable for production left in an unproductive state, that is the strongest argument in favour of the railway line in our opinion.

10117. What follows your inspection and the tendering of your advice?—We only advise, the next procedure being in the hands of the Government.

10118. Has there ever been a case where you have advised a certain route and the line has afterwards been constructed over some alternative route?—Since this Board came into existence we have only dealt with four proposed lines, and have only reported upon two of them. In one case we reported simply against the construction of a line. In the other case there were alternative railway lines proposed and we recommended the construction of one, and the construction of the other one that we did not recommend is being completed. We have no further dealings with the matter after putting in our recommendation.

10119. Why was the line you recommended not constructed?—I do not know. I have no doubt there were arguments for both sides.

10120. Was it ever referred back to you?—No. I take it that the Government considered it simply our duty to collect data and report, and supply our information upon which they could form an opinion. I do not very much like the position because the Government might easily shelter themselves behind the Advisory Board in some cases while neglecting their advice in other cases.

10121. In advising on any route, do you confer in any way with the engineers of the Railway Department with regard to loop lines or spur lines?—The Chief Traffic Manager is a member of the Board. and the Board have the use of his expert knowledge with regard to the working of the railways. This is a factor which we take into consideration and is a very material one. The Board is made up of the Surveyor General, the Chief Traffic Manager, and the Commissioner for the Wheat Belt. I do not know that we are appointed according to our titles.

10122. Do you take into consideration the amount of haulage that settlers have to pay for over loop lines, as against what they would have to pay over spur lines?—The distance of railway haulage is one of the factors that we deal with, and that is where we have benefit of the Chief Traffic Manager's expert knowledge. The convenience of the Working Railways is much greater with a loop line than with a spur line.